Has boat insurance become so hard to find?

[sailorboy1]

When I got my first boat it was a 39'. My wife and had completed ASA Bareboat and had 3 months of weekend sailing experience on 33/34' boats.

The insurance required me to get an additional 30 years of training time with a captain. Which was fine as I needed help moving the boat anyway. And after it was done I got a discount on my insurance for having done the extra training.

[Russ]

Try James Wilkin in FL
State Farm agent
+1 (321) 254-8406
Geico dropped me after 23 years and no claims
They arbitrarily stopped insuring wood and steel boats
Russ

[Reeve21]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The insurance required me to get an additional 30 years of training time with a captain. Which was fine as I needed help moving the boat anyway. And after it was done I got a discount on my insurance for having done the extra training.

How many years left on that 30 year sentence?

[MicHughV]

Florida boat insurance these days requires your first born in addition to robbing your local bank...and that's for a "newish" boat...
Older than 10 years will require additional begging and pleading....

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

The main issue is that they have never owned a boat, not the age or location. Insurance companies like you to start small and step up in size gradually, not jumping straight into a large, fancy boat.

Their options include paying the high insurance rate to start, and it would presumably decrease as time passed without issues / claims. Or starting in a smaller boat, say 22' to 25', and start working their way up in size. (You probably don't want to wait for them with this option.)

Tell them to try SkiSafe. I bought my 1990 Beneteau three years ago and obtained coverage thru previous Owners Ski Safe Ins a policy $50000 Total Agreed Value plus 1 mill liability for $890 a year. Boat is worth lots more than 50k but its a good to assume some risk for lower premium.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The insurance required me to get an additional 30 years of training time with a captain. Which was fine as I needed help moving the boat anyway. And after it was done I got a discount on my insurance for having done the extra training.

That's quite the requirement, but I can see how that would make them comfortable.

Hurricanes are an insurance killer in Florida.

But if the OP's buyers' plan is to sail the boat, I don't see how $3,000 of cost would kill their dream. Sailing isn't "free", and their costs to operate that boat are definitely going to require a budget.

[Montanan]

Offers to purchase a boat should have as a contingency the obtaining of an insurance policy acceptable to buyer, similar to the standard contingency of an offer to purchase real estate.

Purchasing vessel insurance is becoming more challenging and expensive, particularly in hurricane zones such as Florida and Wilmington, N.C.

Likely will need to have the vessel moved further north at least during storm season and / or placed on a secure hard yard, but that kind of defeats the entire live aboard.

Live aboard use of a vessel also makes for greater challenge of obtaining a policy and increases the cost and likely the deductibles.

If they have now had policy coverage declined, it will become more difficult to obtain coverage as it is standard practice to have to disclose if one has ever been declined policy [or to have a policy cancelled or void].

Only solution is to pursue additional policy reviews and hope an underwriter will accommodate.

They will need substantial liability insurance to access marinas.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

The best deal they could find was $50,000 coverage with a $7,500 deductible for annual rate of $3,000. AND...the insurance would not cover any damage due to any of the maintenance items listed in the survey.

Those items were things line:
bilge shows some dirty standing water
raw water intake shows signs of barnacles
wash down pump not working
running rigging is frayed
halyards show some wear
cockpit GPS is not permanently mounted
spade anchor shows some corrosion
dock lines show some wear
knot meter transducer not installed (I keep it out to prevent growth)
genoa furling line shows wear
serial number on Yanmar is not readable

The buyers are broken hearted. We have been working on this deal for over six-months. They had a written quote from one of the big marine insurance companies prior to the survey. They put their home on the rental market and planned to live on the boat full time by mid-April.


Now - they and I have to start all over again.

It is standard to have exclusions of policy coverage for non-accident events.

One of the most common rationales for denying a claim [e.g. a sinking] involves the assertion that the policyholder’s boat was not subject to any “accidental physical loss”. The “fortuity rule” provides that maritime coverage requires proof of an “accident”. This principle of maritime insurance coverage is a longstanding and clearly established rule of federal maritime law.

An accident means a fortuitous event, which the court refers to unexpected, unforeseen, unavoidable, chance, and unintended events. However, the court also observed that a loss can be accidental even when the insured has been negligent.

A policy contains specific exclusions such as for “losses due to wear and tear, gradual deterioration, lack of maintenance, inherent vice, weathering, insects, mold, animal and marine life”. An example would be a leaking shaft gland, a bilge pump that fails to operate due to the battery running down, or an obstruction of its intake.

[Don C L]

There is another fairly recent thread about insuring older boats. I can’t see it right now, you can do a search for it here though. They might try Hagerty Marine.

[MicHughV]

The insurance issue seems to be only one part of the problem from where I stand, adding to sky high marina and fuel costs these days.

I had zero insurance on my first boat for the entire time I had it, fifteen odd years, and I was a full time liveaboard and cruiser and it was never an issue. not once. That was then, not the case today.

These days, insurance requirements have crept into every nook and cranny, which seems to have affected the entire boating industry, especially in Florida and the Caribbean.

From where I stand, the boating industry has shrank to near nothing these days as it has become simply un-affordable for many.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Reeve21

How many years left on that 30 year sentence?

About 13. Lucky for me they decided hours would ok

[Wilyum]

Ive conceded to the fact that I will end up buying a boat considerably cheaper than I would have otherwise just so I can self insure. I wont spend any more than I am comfortable with letting sink to the bottom of the Pacific.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

I sold my 1994 Caliber 40 to a couple with a lot of sailing education and experience but no prior boat ownership. They have been unable to find any insurance that is reasonably priced with realistic terms.

They are in their early 50s, a pair of professionals who own a well established and successful business/consultancy. They own their own home. They have taken all the ASA classes thru offshore cruising and have chartered large boats several times for a week or 10-days in the Virgin Islands.

They paid to have a very through out of the water insurance survey done. It listed no priority one (Safety & Regulatory) defects, It found 53 priority two defects which are deemed "important maintenance items."

The overall condition was "average" with a fair market value about 40% above the purchase price.

They were told by several insurance brokers that it was almost impossible to get boat insurance for anything over 32' or35' with no prior boat ownership experience.

The best deal they could find was $50,000 coverage with a $7,500 deductible for annual rate of $3,000. AND...the insurance would not cover any damage due to any of the maintenance items listed in the survey.

Those items were things line:
bilge shows some dirty standing water
raw water intake shows signs of barnacles
wash down pump not working
running rigging is frayed
halyards show some wear
cockpit GPS is not permanently mounted
spade anchor shows some corrosion
dock lines show some wear
knot meter transducer not installed (I keep it out to prevent growth)
genoa furling line shows wear
serial number on Yanmar is not readable

The buyers are broken hearted. We have been working on this deal for over six-months. They had a written quote from one of the big marine insurance companies prior to the survey. They put their home on the rental market and planned to live on the boat full time by mid-April.


Now - they and I have to start all over again.

ok that's nuts. Did they talk to Progressive? I'm on my first boat, its a 38', and it was no problem for me at all. It is a later boat though 2007.

The other stuff is all either not an issue at all or normal maintenance items, did insurance know its not a new boat ? crazy

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

The insurance issue seems to be only one part of the problem from where I stand, adding to sky high marina and fuel costs these days.

I had zero insurance on my first boat for the entire time I had it, fifteen odd years, and I was a full time liveaboard and cruiser and it was never an issue. not once. That was then, not the case today.

These days, insurance requirements have crept into every nook and cranny, which seems to have affected the entire boating industry, especially in Florida and the Caribbean.

From where I stand, the boating industry has shrank to near nothing these days as it has become simply un-affordable for many.

Yes, and on top of that, at least in my neighborhood it is nearly impossible to find a slip over 30 feet. On the other hand, if you don't mind 30' or less, and you're a DIY kind of person with an older boat, and you just need liability insurance, things can still be somewhat affordable....
Actually there is a guy with a really nice, 50 year old, Cal 34 next to me in a 30' slip, so maybe you can go a little bigger depending on the marina's restrictions.

[SailingHarmonie]

I hate to be contrary, but our insurance has been going DOWN in cost for the last three years.

Same company, with improving coverage. It is not cheap, but the lower costs are certainly welcome for us. This is wide ranging cruising coverage for for the Caribbean, Gulf of Mexico and all the way to Atlantic Canada and Bermuda. And our boat is 28 years old, with no home port, full time liveaboards with no land address, and always on the move. Exactly the kind of boat that is supposed to be "hard to insure."

Contrary to what the internet has you believe, the news is NOT all bad out there.

We are very experienced, with a well found boat, good credit ratings, clean driving records, and a long term history of no claims on any insurance of any kind.

If you have any dings in that list, you'll have a hard time. If you have ever had a DUI, you'll find getting insurance is close to impossible. If you have a driving record that includes numerous moving violations, ditto. If you have a bad credit rating, same again. Insurance companies are not stupid. They know that making bad decisions in one part of your life is a very good predictor of what you do in other parts.