Swing Keels & Bolts - Catalina

[zamber]

From what I heard, Catalina 22 and 25 are no longer safe to use if the keel bolts are decayed, because new keel bolts cannot be found. As all keel bolts will eventually go, does that mean the Catalina 22/25 last as long as the bolt?

What is cost for a swing keel inspection? What type of bills did people get for fixing swing keels?

[Spot]

I am 90% through a remove/replace of my internal keel framing and refinishing of the cast iron external keel pieces on my 21'-footer.

A good buddy made a point to demonstrate to me that a 304SS keel bolt will fail in a seawater trailer sailor at about 5 years. Mine have about 50 years on 304SS in fresh water...He is back to using 316SS.

I would reach out to Catalina, they have been responsive to my interweb inquiry on an old Omega dinghy.
https://www.catalinayachts.com/contact/

I would also check here and other class org's:
https://www.catalina22.org/index.php/technical-manual

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by zamber

From what I heard, Catalina 22 and 25 are no longer safe to use if the keel bolts are decayed, because new keel bolts cannot be found. As all keel bolts will eventually go, does that mean the Catalina 22/25 last as long as the bolt?

What is cost for a swing keel inspection? What type of bills did people get for fixing swing keels?

Could you please explain what is so unique about these bolts?

ANY bolt can be reproduced from scratch if needed and doing so in a better material than 304 s/s would not add to cost in any significant degree. For sure cheaper than replacing the boat!

Jim

[zamber]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Could you please explain what is so unique about these bolts?

From Catalina Direct:

Don't expect to add this kit to your boat, then sail it to the Bahamas! If the original keel bolts are degraded, the boat is not and will never be as seaworthy
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-...earchResults=1

[Spot]

I should add the 304/316 comparison above was for a swing keel pivot bolt on a 400# (180kg) cast iron blade.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by zamber

From Catalina Direct:

It also says

“ Keel bolt retrofit kit for cast iron fin keel on a Catalina 22, Catalina 25 or Catalina 27. Not for use on a swing keel boat.”

Keel bolts are very different things on a fixed lead keel vs a cast iron swing keel. Catalina fixed lead keels have stainless (I presume 316) studs cast into the lead, which are hard to replace. A swing keel will have a single pivot bolt that is comparatively easy to remove, measure, and buy a replacement for.

Looks like the C22 actually has a bronze pin that fits into a pair of bronze castings.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-...earchResults=1

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by wyb2

It also says

“ Keel bolt retrofit kit for cast iron fin keel on a Catalina 22, Catalina 25 or Catalina 27. Not for use on a swing keel boat.”

Keel bolts are very different things on a fixed lead keel vs a cast iron swing keel. Catalina fixed lead keels have stainless (I presume 316) studs cast into the lead, which are hard to replace. A swing keel will have a single pivot bolt that is comparatively easy to remove, measure, and buy a replacement for.

Looks like the C22 actually has a bronze pin that fits into a pair of bronze castings.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-...earchResults=1

Well, FWIW, I bought Cat 22 hull 61 direct from Frank Butler in North Hollywood. On t hat very early build the keel pivot bolt was a simple s/s hex head cap screw that penetrated the fiberglass sides of the keel trunk and was "sealed" with rubber washers capped with s/s washers, squeezed down with a simple hex nut. Leaked like a sieve from new, it did, when sailed at all hard.

Eventually I tired of sloshing bilges and made up some bronze (or more likely brass) plates thick enough to have o-ring grooves in the bores and epoxied/bolted them to the sides of the keel trunk. Replaced the bolt with one enough longer to reach through. This was in place for the last 6 of the 7 years I owned that boat and was still working when I sold her.

BTW, that modification was done with the boat jacked up from her normal spot on her trailer, using techniques that would not likely satisfy OSHA. Fortunately they did not do an inspection of my driveway!

At any rate, I fail to see why one should write off a boat because of a keel pivot bolt that needs replacement.

Jim

[NorthCoastJoe]

You should be able to get a 316 ss bolt the same as what is there. I have done several cast iron swing keel bolt replacements. It's not a big deal, support the pivot end or the keel with a jack to take the load off the bolt and just change it out. The sealing washers may be a bigger pain to find.

[Secondshift]

Respectfully,

You didn’t look very hard and trusted an uninformed opinion.
I thought maybe Catalinadirect. Com went out of business or something.

Every keel part is available except the keel itself!!!
Even the weldments that are glassed into the hull to receive the bolts. Best done from inside if you need them.

Don’t remember anything special about the bolts but ordered them with other items when I refinished the keel on our early 80’s model 22.
Best luck

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, FWIW, I bought Cat 22 hull 61 direct from Frank Butler in North Hollywood. On t hat very early build the keel pivot bolt was a simple s/s hex head cap screw that penetrated the fiberglass sides of the keel trunk and was "sealed" with rubber washers capped with s/s washers, squeezed down with a simple hex nut. Leaked like a sieve from new, it did, when sailed at all hard.

Eventually I tired of sloshing bilges and made up some bronze (or more likely brass) plates thick enough to have o-ring grooves in the bores and epoxied/bolted them to the sides of the keel trunk. Replaced the bolt with one enough longer to reach through. This was in place for the last 6 of the 7 years I owned that boat and was still working when I sold her.

BTW, that modification was done with the boat jacked up from her normal spot on her trailer, using techniques that would not likely satisfy OSHA. Fortunately they did not do an inspection of my driveway!

At any rate, I fail to see why one should write off a boat because of a keel pivot bolt that needs replacement.

Jim

Interesting! I actually went on the read the article on Catalina direct that says the external bronze pin/casting design was implemented somewhere around hull 280.

My current boat is a Mac 25 that has that same old style, simple hex bolt passed right through the fiberglass trunk. It’s actually been pretty good on the leaking front, it uses large cupped aluminum washers to bear down on matching profile rubber washers. It works surprisingly well. We only keep the boat in the water for 2-4 days at a time though.

(This boat has also been suspended in a definitely safe, it’ll-be-fine way for keel and trailer work)

But regardless of design details, I think the OP is simply not realizing the difference between repairing a fixed keel and a swing keel, and what “keel bolt” means between the two.