Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

[garymcg]

Originally Posted by garymcg

I reinsulated my fridge with alternate layers of Spaceloft and Cryogel-z. Unfortunately I can't test it until next spring as it's too cold here in Michigan.

I have 27 sq ft. of 10mm Cryogel Z (Spaceloft with foil vapor barrier) left over, 70 " x 57 ". I'm willing to sell it for $5 a sq. ft., so $135 plus shipping from Ann Arbor, MI. PM me if interested.

Gary

This insulation has been sold.

Thanks

[timothy22]

Here is one refrigeration application using a form of aerogel as a core for a vacuum insulated panel. The major advantage to aerogel as a core material is that it does not require a "hard" vacuum to be effective so the life of the panel is longer. Despite the cost of vip lined containers, the savings in shipping cost is greater.

Therm-Max™ Aerogel Panels & Containers

[timothy22]

Just found these folks offering all the parts for a built in box. VIPs, shelves, hatches, gaskets, the lot. With pictures of a build in progress.

www.rparts.com

[SV Demeter]

Originally Posted by garymcg

This insulation has been sold.

Thanks

Wow Gary thanks for the insulation. Got it yesterday. Plan is to use it in conjuction with blue board. I just need to decide should it go in between two layers of blueboard or on the outside of the blue board. Im going to use some sort of pultruded FRP for the liner and plan to buy a lid/frame assembly from R-parts. I may end up with left over spaceloft insulation so depending on how much is left I will probably pass it on to a CF memeber.

[Richard Kollmann]

SV Demeter, I would like to run a test on use of Spaceloft insulation in a true warm moist marine refrigerator environment. If you end up with a one ft square piece that is all I need. I will buy it from you and pay shipping cost.

I would think Blueboard against liner and Spaceloft outboard as Blueboard is more impact and moisture resistant.

[SV Demeter]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

SV Demeter, I would like to run a test on use of Spaceloft insulation in a true warm moist marine refrigerator environment. If you end up with a one ft square piece that is all I need. I will buy it from you and pay shipping cost.

I would think Blueboard against liner and Spaceloft outboard as Blueboard is more impact and moisture resistant.

Mr. Kollmann how about you PM me your mailing address and I will gladly send you a piece completely free, in exchange you continue to give me good advice on my box rebuild and fridge system replacement? I have your book and have already learned a ton from it but I know there is a lot more.

My plan is to finish removing all of the old box. See the attached photo. Once the old liner and foam are out I would start building the new box. Im not sure wether to try and take careful measurements and start from the liner and work my way out with blueboard layers followed by an outer jacket of spaceloft or start from the outside and work inward.

Im wondering if I could build the bottom and 4 sides from 2 layers of 1.5" thick blueboard leaving enough room in the outside dimensions for 1 or 2 layers (10 or 20mm) of the spaceloft. Then the spaceloft could be wrapped around the blueboard like a jacket and I could tape the seams with reinforced foil tape. Then this whole assempbly could be dropped into the space where the old box was. Then build the liner by gluing 1/8 or 1/4" thick FRP to inside of the blueboard and then fillet the seams with thickened epoxy and probably glass tape the seams on the inside. Then for the top I would glue FRP to the blueboard and fit it. Filleting would be a pain so maybe I could glass tape from the outside?

On the other hand starting from the liner I could build the whole liner out of FRP all 6 sides and glass tape the seams from the outside and either fillet or use a bead of caulk for aesthetics? Then glue on blueboard to the liner in alternating layers followed by a jacket of spaceloft. Then hopefully drop the whole unit into the space where the old box was. This method is appealing but would require very careful measuring because if it came out too big it would not drop into the old space. I also dont know if I could get the finised box through my companionway.

Thinking I still need some solid advice on box building here, might have to go back to your book.

Im planning to use a lid/frame assembly from R-parts and finish the top with a corian type counter top.

For mechanicals I was planning to use a flat either L or U shaped thinplate evaporator mounted to the liner near the top of the box. Im thinking I want to be able to replace the evaporator without having to tear off the countertop so my lid assembly needs to be large enough to get the evaporator out. I only plan to have this box function as a fridge, no freezer compartment. Im hoping to get away with a BD-35 compressor with speed controller but am willing to go up to a BD-50 if the volume requires it. Im thinking of going purely air cooled but have considered keel cooling. My best guess at interior volume is 6-7 cubic feet. This boat will be a liveaboard cruising primarily in the tropics with my wife and 2 kids.

We have 400 watts of solar with an OUtback Flexmaxx 60 MPPT controller, 800 amp hour battery bank and will probably add a Honda EU2000 for sunless days.

For a freezer I am planning to buy a standalone Engel unit that I can choose to use when I have the power to run it and turn it off when Im energy poor.

[Sunchaser]

I've built one box in our previous boat out of blue board and spray foam to fill voids and am planning to build a smaller box (for ice only) in a trailer boat we have, plus it's just become obvious that the box in our Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman needs to start over.

A few comments. My wife, who usually reads and sometimes posts here, said I should investigate the things in this thread.

On my other box, which we used cruising for a length of time and at the dock and shorter trips for years, was built of a box I glassed up to fit the space, then used blue board and foam to make a complete solid insulation layer of at least 6" all around. With a super cold machine and the large evaporator bent to fit in a u shape at one end of the box, it cooled quite well, ran maybe half the time or less regardless of temp. While waiting on the fridge unit to arrive we used ice for a couple weeks and could get by on about 20 lbs for nearly a week. Once it was installed, I laid a piece of 3/4" blue board on top of the coils, maybe sealing off 1/4 to 1/3 of the box, not sealed well, and used it for a freezer. We could keep about 12 trays of ice and maybe 20 lbs of meat under the ice frozen quite well. We had no spillover unit, just leakage from the loosely placed blue board. We were quite pleased with the results. We placed steaks in there when we left on one cruise, and ate them the day before landing in the US 6 months later. We might have come up with a box with thinner insulation, but I don't think we could have had a better insulated box, no matter what we used. Did I mention it was next to the motor and the motor ran days at a time?

Now, something that is relevant to the boxes suggested here, particularly the ones using hybrid type arrangements. Lets go to our house we built. The roof is 12" rafters with fiberglass bats laid between. The building inspectors tried to get me to use something else, like sprayed in solid insulation. I did it my way. The results were just what they warned me of.

When you have heat on one side and cold on the other (ice box or roof, it doesn't matter) somewhere through that thickness the temp will hit the dew point. It'll go from 35 inside to 80 outside, or whatever, but all temps in between will be hit somewhere. Somewhere in that distance will be the dew point. At the dew point, if there is any air, you'll get condensation. The location where the dew point is will vary depending on temp inside and out. Water will condense if there is any way whatsoever for air to move around. In the case of my roof, even though I thought I placed the bats nearly solid, there was no way to avoid small air cavities. Through the winter, as temps went up and down, I'd gather condensation, often frozen, and when it warms up, I get nearly rain sometimes through my ceiling.

If there are any air voids in your insulation, you'll get moisture in there it'll end up wet. Maybe not quickly, but over time it can saturate it, and water doesn't make a very good insulator.

My first box was built, and the box in the trailer boat will be built pretty much from scratch. I have no problem layering up blue board however I want. I'll build another inner box to fit the area on the trailer boat, layer the foam and build the enclosure.

Our Cheoy Lee is a different story. It's a big box built as part of the cabinet. I can't get good access to just layer foam around it without tearing everything apart and that is far from my first choice. I can't easily lay up a one piece box and drop it in, so I may have to layer it up and build it in place after the foam is in. I'd much rather make a mold and lay up polyester on a mold, but I may have to lay up epoxy on the blue board. With polyester I can just gel coat it, gel won't stick to epoxy, so that is another problem.

So, the point of the post is to point out the above problem, and say I'll be watching for ideas for the rest of the Cheoy Lee problem.

[bartonman]

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum, but found it during my research of Aerogel uses. I think Aerogel Spaceloft is an amazing insulation. I did a tremendous amount of research on it because I just purchased 21000 square feet of the 10mm x 57" rolls. That's not a misprint. I just bought 30 rolls of this stuff. I will be using it on my Roberts 58 to insulate my deck above my engine. It currently has insulation, but not this stuff. I'm going to see if it would be adequate to insulate my wet exhaust system as well. I've read how they use Pyrogel on dry exhaust, and wet exhaust is not as hot. Pyrogel was coated with a phenolic resin then painted (http://www.aerogel.com/markets/Case_Study_Yacht_Exhausts_web.pdf). So I will post progress when I get to work on it. By the way, Spaceloft is hydrophobic and will not absorb any moisture, but it is reportedly dusty. I will be experimenting with different uses for this Spaceloft. When my shipment is delivered, I will be selling it on eBay. But anyone on the forum can just message me directly if they need any. I should have it within one or two weeks.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, bartonman.

[bartonman]

Thank you GordMay.

[SV Demeter]

It is most certainly dusty! And the dust is a strange almost fiberglass like dust. I have some and am planning to use it in my fridge rebuild project. My current plan is to use it on the outside of blueboard foam. Will likely go with 4" of blueboard then a layer or 2 of the Spaceloft with the foil barrier facing out. Probably going with 6" of foam on the bottom and hull side. Trouble is I have my rigs down and a ton of other crap tore apart so I doubt I will get to building the box for another month.

[senormechanico]

The dust is the finest stuff I've ever seen. It's not toxic or anything but it feels like will dry out the skin on your hands almost instantly. It washes off with soap and water.

I'm almost done with the construction of my box.
I used 1/8" FRP from Home Depot, and installed LED strip lights from oznium.com.
The liner is done, and I'm going to start insulating it this weekend.

[SV Demeter]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

The dust is the finest stuff I've ever seen. It's not toxic or anything but it feels like will dry out the skin on your hands almost instantly. It washes off with soap and water.

I'm almost done with the construction of my box.
I used 1/8" FRP from Home Depot, and installed LED strip lights from oznium.com.
The liner is done, and I'm going to start insulating it this weekend.

Hey would love to see how your box construction went. I need all the help I cna get ands was planning on using FRP for the liner. You will see a few posts up what im working with. Right now I have completely removed the old box and just have bulkheads along the fore and aft sides. There is also the plywood bulkhead that runs fore and aft, and then the hull which curves up from the bottom.

Im trying to decide where to start building the new box? Should I start from the outside with insulation building it up then glue in the liner with fillets to make the box? Or build the liner first after taking measurements and subtracting the space needed for insulation? Im leaning towards the first route. Then once the bottom and sides are insulated and a the liner built I need to figure out the countertop. Im wondering how to put down the counterop with insualtion and then the liner lid and be able to fillet that top seam? Seems like a tough spot to get into to fillet in.

Anyway any photos or links or suggesitons on box construction techniques are greatly appreciated.

[Cptn Happy]

Welcome Bartonman. By the way, is your Spaceloft the standard material of the Cryogel with the foil backing?

[bartonman]

Thank you, looking forward to listening to ideas and sharing experiences with everyone. The Spaceloft I have is not the Cryogel with the foil backing. It is unfaced Spaceloft. White in color and 10mm thick. I plan on buying some of the foil and using a spray adhesive to apply it myself. It apparently needs to be encapsulated with something in order to keep it from releasing dust. The insulation I am replacing is foil faced fiberglass. So it wont look much different, But I expect it to function much better by getting a higher R-Value. The manufacturer also states it has some sound insulation properties, which I will be looking forward to. I have a tall 20 gallon fresh water pressure tank sharing my engine compartment I will be blanketing it also, so it does not absorb the heat from the engine. I want hot and cold water, not hot water and warm water.