Furling problems - excessive forestay sag? Bigger furling drum?

[Cliffhanger]

I have a 36ft Cat with a genoa on furlex furler. The sail is really difficult to furl. I can get it to furl by hand on a reach under 10 kts wind speed but it is really hard work. Above that and I can only furl it going downwind. Above 20 kts and the furling line is on the sheet winch. Really hard work and takes about 5 mins. My wife can't furl the sail at all which raises some safety concerns. Yesterday we were sailing in a 7 kt breeze and got hit by a 27kt squall. Suddenly we are heading towards a sandbank at 9kts, with a lee shore so we can't bear away and trying to crank the sail in on the winch. Scary stuff.

So, I have replaced all the furling line blocks and leads with bearing ones and so the problem is not friction there.
The halyard does not get wrapped around the swivel. It has a retainer correctly positioned.
The bearings have all been greased and spin freely even under high halyard tension. I have played around with halyard tension and no change.
Could it be excessive forestay sag? How do I tell how much is too much?
Does it need a larger diameter furling drum?

Other than that I have run out of ideas.

[Chotu]

Are you letting off the active sheet when you furl?

Sail should be flapping away in the breeze while you furl with the slightest tension (using your hands) on the sheet to keep it under some control as it's furled up.

You shouldn't have the sheet hard on the sheet winch while furling in any wind.

If you've done everything else mentioned, that's all that's left. If it spins freely at the dock, it's the sail loading causing your problem.

[Cliffhanger]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Are you letting off the active sheet when you furl?

Sail should be flapping away in the breeze while you furl with the slightest tension (using your hands) on the sheet to keep it under some control as it's furled up.

You shouldn't have the sheet hard on the sheet winch while furling in any wind.

If you've done everything else mentioned, that's all that's left. If it spins freely at the dock, it's the sail loading causing your problem.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, tried a variety of sheet tensions. On my previous boat I used to just let the sheets fly and just furl away by hand. Only took a few seconds. On this boat, at 25-30kts it is impossible to furl a flogging sail. Twice now, I have had to pull the whole sail down rather than furl it. Quicker, easier and safer but then no sail. So, best approach is to ease the sheet out and winch in at the same time.

[psk125]

You should not need a winch to operate the furler at all. Sounds like the forestay is too loose, making the furler extrusion sag and jam. It doesn’t happen in light air or in port or with a tight halyard because the forestay isn’t sagging then. The questions to ask would be how tight is your backstay, or is the hull doing any “banana-ing” in heavy air? Along with the backstay, the main sheet and vang also help to keep the forestay taut. Many boats sail without setting the main when they’re shorthanded, so this could also add to the problem.

[Cheechako]

It can be tough with some wind. I found on my 47 mono I had to walk a line between almost luffing the headsail and easing the sheet simultaneously.

[FabioC]

Also, make sure that the swivel at the head and the bearings in the furler are correctly lubricated (for the furler, some need lubrication, some don't), it makes an incredible difference in the effort required.
However, technique is important as well. The sheet tension is critical (the sheet has to be just slacked, but not flogging). In general, though, as others have said, if you need to use a handle on the winch to furl the sail, something is wrong, the forces at play should be rather manageable, if the maneuver and the setup are done properly, even in 20 knots of wind.

[Orion Jim]

I think headstay tension is your problem. Use a Loos gage and check your rig tension. Eyeballing is subjective....a gage is objective.

[admiralslater]

I agree headstay and halyard tension really affect furlers . Do you have running backs

[roverhi]

Some people falling off and blanketing the headsail with the main makes furling way easier. Haven't been in any conditions where I might have benefited so haven't tried it.

[Vasco]

Too much halyard tension?

[Jahwork]

Hola all,

What make and model 36’ catamaran are we discussing? I am curious as we currently have a 36’ Solaris cat and our last boat was a 35’ Lagoon CCC. Neither of which did we have a particularly tough time furling the headsails, the Lagoon with a drum furler and the Solaris with a continuous line furler. I am wondering what the deck layout is as well as the size/cut/age of the headsail in question. Do you happen to have any pics you can share of the set-up as well as the standing/running rigging orientation?

Safe Journeys,
~Jake

[SkipMark]

Another potential cause for this problem is that the furling shaft has internal plastic liners to protect the fore stay, and these can get damaged and bind on the stay, no matter how loose or tight the stay is.

When in port or at anchor, release the tension on the halyard a bit, and release the tack of the sail from the roller at the bow. If the roller itself turns easily, and as you say there is no binding at the head, then you may need to replace the lining inside the furling sheave. This requires actually removing the sheave (or foil) from the fore stay, so requires some planning!


Additional thought: on the Furlex, you will also have to release the foil from the roller assembly. This is not very difficult, but be careful not to lose any bolts overboard. All this stuff is best done on the hard! :-)

[belizesailor]

How old is the furler?

[Cliffhanger]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I will try to answer some of the questions. The boat is a 1991 Simpson 36. It has twin fixed backstays. I could tighten the backstays as there is a fair amount of thread showing on the rigging screws. I am a bit nervous about cranking of the backstays as the mast already has about 20cms of prebend already. You might be able to see in this image.



This image shows the forestay sag in abou 15kts on a reach. It looks like about 30 cm of sag. The forestay is about 14m long.

[Cheechako]

The images are not showing for me. I would commonly have maybe 10" of sag in both my 44 and 47 foot boats in a fresh breeze with a 115% genoa. Both had Profurl furlers and furled up fine, although it took some effort. As I said earlier I would luff up or walk a balance of releasing the sheet and furling together.
I had a hydraulic backstay adjuster, but it really didn't help eliminate the sag. I think I was bending the boat like a banana.