Radio comms with plastic helmet

[HankOnthewater]

Thinking about 2 things: to equip crew with comms like Sena or Eartec, and secondly to have a helmet to protect our most valuable asset: brains. Particularly when a crew is on blood thinners, a wack against the head, and being offshore, could be a disater.
There are plenty of helmet suppliers ie:
https://gathsports.com/
And plenty of comms:
https://eartec.com/e-pak-specs/
https://www.sena.com/product/marine/all/

I can only find one with integrated helmet and comms, and very pricey......
https://tigerperformance.com/marine/...w-sar-helmets/

Has anyone has any experiences regarding integrating comms in a helmet?

[Hartleyg]

Sena does kits of mic and earphones that are intended for installation in motorcycle helmets. We have Sena headsets and LOVE them (not in helmets, though). Check out www.sena.com



Hartley
S/V Atsa

[HankOnthewater]

Thank you Hartley. I had Sena headsets on motorbike helmets, but the 'box' was mounted outside the helmet, on the side. I did not like that.

Looks like not much experience out there with comms and helmet integration, or not worthwhile sharing.
Maybe I should have headlined the post with something like "shall i use LFP or LA batteries in my headsets?". Or I should have posted this in the 'anchoring' section .

[Kettlewell]

Personally, I am a big believer in developing silent hand signals instead of relying on gear that will inevitably be not working or forgotten a lot of the time. My wife and I started cruising a long time ago and have developed simple signals that work 100% of the time and require no technology.

[Hartleyg]

Kettlewell, my wife and I had a fully-developed set of hand signals for anchoring - and then we had an event that ended up costing me about half of my thumb. We bought Sena headsets and frankly, we've never looked back.
Yes, hand signals work, UNLESS something goes sideways - and there isn't anything to discuss. With headsets, we can discuss where we're going, things one of us sees and the other doesn't, situations that occur (tangles, unexpected knots, etc.) and which one of our friends we want to anchor next to They're also darn useful when I'm up at the masthead, or we're trying to thread something from deck to below.


We wouldn't go back to hand signals unless we absolutely had to - in fact, we're thinking of buying a spare headset "just in case".


Hartley
S/V Atsa

[Hartleyg]

Hank,


The Sena website seems to be down at the moment, but perusing Amazon shows that they have a number of very non-bulky solutions for helmets. They also sell helmets (aimed at bikes and skateboarders, it looks like) with integrated bluetooth intercoms.
But sailing helmets are not a big piece of the market, so you may not find anything specific for those.


Hartley
S/V Atsa

[Kettlewell]

Kettlewell, my wife and I had a fully-developed set of hand signals for anchoring - and then we had an event that ended up costing me about half of my thumb. We bought Sena headsets and frankly, we've never looked back.

I'm glad they work for you! But, what happens when you wake up at 0200 and realize that your boat is sideways to the wind, you hear someone shouting and someone else blowing a horn, there's a nearby engine roaring, and you have to rush up on deck in a black night with rain blowing sideways and reanchor? Do you stop on the way up to the cockpit to put on your headphones, which you hopefully know how to find in the dark. Does your wife also do so when she realizes you have gone up to the foredeck and you are shouting to start the engine? Personally, I find that anything that relies on electronics, batteries, recharging, etc. is not reliable enough for me to rely on.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

Thinking about 2 things: to equip crew with comms like Sena or Eartec, and secondly to have a helmet to protect our most valuable asset: brains. Particularly when a crew is on blood thinners, a wack against the head, and being offshore, could be a disater.
There are plenty of helmet suppliers ie:
https://gathsports.com/
And plenty of comms:
https://eartec.com/e-pak-specs/
https://www.sena.com/product/marine/all/

I can only find one with integrated helmet and comms, and very pricey......
https://tigerperformance.com/marine/...w-sar-helmets/

Has anyone has any experiences regarding integrating comms in a helmet?

The Gath helmets are really designed for a different purpose (surfing) and do not meet the ISO/ANSI requirements for water sports helmets. They are for head ding protection, not impact reduction, which I think is what you want.

Maybe this will help. The Forward Pro Whip is protective and I like the Zihk H-1. But what I actually wear is a bump cap liner inside my ball cap, with some extra foam.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...ailors-pumpkin


This ball cap has a Skullerz insert. It won't reduce G-force, but it can save some dings and cuts, it's comfortable, and it stays on better than the the ball cap alone.


As for coms, I don't get the need. Hand signals work very well for anchoring. Planning is the other thing. There shouldn't be anything to talk about. And we aren't sailing at 50 knots like the AC guys.

[Hartleyg]

Kettlewell,


The middle-of-the night scenario you postulate would not involve headsets - unless there was a break in the action that allowed for it.
I appreciate you don't want any electronic gizmos - though I'll note that our Sena headsets have done well through perhaps 20,000 cruising miles and several hundreds of anchorings, moorings and other activities. I try to recharge them on a regular basis - probably way more often than required, as our usage is usually only 10-15 minutes at a time. The only maintenance they've needed was new foam earpads.
We always have our hand signals to fall back on, of course.


Thinwater, planning is, of course, required - but if the bow person encounters something unexpected - a gear issue, something in the water or whatever - it is sure nice to be able to discuss it in calm tones vs. half-heard shouting and loud misunderstandings.
A good example from a couple weeks ago: we were picking up a mooring in St. Augustine - in 25-30 knots of wind. Once we closed the buoy, I (the helmsman) can't see the situation at all - but my mooring maiden could, and that allowed me to keep the bow where it needed to be while she wrestled with the short tether and running our docklines through it. I don't think hand signals would have worked. The headsets made a difficult situation MUCH easier.



If you (as the mighty helmsman) don't care for your anchor mate's thoughts, that's fine - I find it makes us work much more better - and without the angst we've all seen demonstrated out there


Hartley
S/V Atsa

[wrwakefield]

I can’t help with the helmet question, but will add my vote for the SENA headsets.

We don’t use them every time we anchor or dock as our long established hand signals suffice. And we still use hand signals when talking on the headsets to reinforce their use- not unlike using RADAR when visibility is excellent.

But hand signals have no convenient confirmation loop [e.g., when anchoring, I don’t turn around and look at the helm every time I signal to confirm it was received and understood.]

And there have been times when hand signals have been missed, or the person issuing them has no free hands to signal with; or the oddball irregular signal being considered might be misunderstood- or considered inappropriate in mixed company…

And we have yet to establish a convenient line-of-sight for hand signals when in the engine room, and we don’t have enough signals in our repertoire for working up the mast… [Not to mention preventing kinks in the neck for the deck duty.]

Conversation is often key, even critical on occasion.

Additionally, headsets offer the occasional opportunity to gain some unique insight if anyone talks to themselves…

Best wishes finding what you need.

Cheers, Bill

PS: They also pair well with our cell phones for the occasional hands-free conversation while underway…

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Hartleyg

Kettlewell,


The middle-of-the night scenario you postulate would not involve headsets - unless there was a break in the action that allowed for it.
I appreciate you don't want any electronic gizmos - though I'll note that our Sena headsets have done well through perhaps 20,000 cruising miles and several hundreds of anchorings, moorings and other activities. I try to recharge them on a regular basis - probably way more often than required, as our usage is usually only 10-15 minutes at a time. The only maintenance they've needed was new foam earpads.
We always have our hand signals to fall back on, of course.


Thinwater, planning is, of course, required - but if the bow person encounters something unexpected - a gear issue, something in the water or whatever - it is sure nice to be able to discuss it in calm tones vs. half-heard shouting and loud misunderstandings.
A good example from a couple weeks ago: we were picking up a mooring in St. Augustine - in 25-30 knots of wind. Once we closed the buoy, I (the helmsman) can't see the situation at all - but my mooring maiden could, and that allowed me to keep the bow where it needed to be while she wrestled with the short tether and running our docklines through it. I don't think hand signals would have worked. The headsets made a difficult situation MUCH easier.



If you (as the mighty helmsman) don't care for your anchor mate's thoughts, that's fine - I find it makes us work much more better - and without the angst we've all seen demonstrated out there


Hartley
S/V Atsa

It's not that we don't care for their thoughts. We've learned other ways. Back in the day (not that long ago) construction cranes were operated from great distances with hand signals. They were standardized and concise. Most crane work is still done with hand signals, because it is easier. Yes, mooring balls are one of the more challenging cases. Of course, unless you have twin screws, holding the bow steady is tricky once you loose way. Use headsets, by all means.

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The Gath helmets are really designed for a different purpose (surfing) and do not meet the ISO/ANSI requirements for water sports helmets. They are for head ding protection, not impact reduction, which I think is what you want.

Maybe this will help. The Forward Pro Whip is protective and I like the Zihk H-1. But what I actually wear is a bump cap liner inside my ball cap, with some extra foam.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...ailors-pumpkin.

Thank you for the link Thinwater, that opened some new avenues to explore.
Regarding handsignals, yes they work well in daylight, we we use them in the rigging industry as well. But..... in the dark or with both hands busy with ropes or boothook, they can not be used.

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by Hartleyg

Hank,


The Sena website seems to be down at the moment, but perusing Amazon shows that they have a number of very non-bulky solutions for helmets. They also sell helmets (aimed at bikes and skateboarders, it looks like) with integrated bluetooth intercoms.
But sailing helmets are not a big piece of the market, so you may not find anything specific for those
S/V Atsa

Thank you Hartley, yes Sena get good reviews, both in boating and for motorbikes. Sailing friends suggested yesterday Parani to me, a brand somewhat associated with Sena. They were very happy with that, and they sewed it, or somehow attached it to a baseball cap.
https://parani.com/collections/paran...cts-collection

Still, we would have the black box attached to the outside of the helmet. I continue looking.

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

I can’t help with the helmet question, but will add my vote for the SENA headsets.

We don’t use them every time we anchor or dock as our long established hand signals suffice. And we still use hand signals when talking on the headsets to reinforce their use- not unlike using RADAR when visibility is excellent.

But hand signals have no convenient confirmation loop [e.g., when anchoring, I don’t turn around and look at the helm every time I signal to confirm it was received and understood.]

And there have been times when hand signals have been missed, or the person issuing them has no free hands to signal with; or the oddball irregular signal being considered might be misunderstood- or considered inappropriate in mixed company…

And we have yet to establish a convenient line-of-sight for hand signals when in the engine room, and we don’t have enough signals in our repertoire for working up the mast… [Not to mention preventing kinks in the neck for the deck duty.]

Conversation is often key, even critical on occasion.

Additionally, headsets offer the occasional opportunity to gain some unique insight if anyone talks to themselves…

Best wishes finding what you need.

Cheers, Bill

PS: They also pair well with our cell phones for the occasional hands-free conversation while underway…

Thanks Bill, in particular the reference to 'talking to oneself' Yes, we all have our issues. And if those issues are not bigger than talking to ourselves, then we are doing pretty well.

The Eartec stuff is almost exclusively used on film sets (in Australia), in camera and rigging departments. The batteries last easily a day's work of 10-12 hours, are comfy, but these are not suitable to be worn under helmets.
https://eartec.com/ultralite/

An Eartec staff suggested I use the E-pac sytem, then that can be used under nearly any helmet, using bone conduction for hearing, instead of speakers.
Hmmm, sofar this solution is the most favourable.
https://eartec.com/sail/

However the tiger performance helmets ticks all the boxes.
https://tigerperformance.com/marine/...-marine-model/
In fact, it ticks too many boxes, particular the price one, and is over the top for our needs (a cruising ketch).

In the past I had a crew fall in the galley, with a hit to the head, while we were away from a tertiary hospital well over 1000 Nm in all directions. That was scary with the crew lying down for 2-3 days, out of action. A new crew is on a high dose of blood thinners... If he gets a wack to the head, a internal brain bleed is almost guaranteed.
So, I keep looking, but in the mean time just a helmet without comms just for him?

[seamonk]

RNLI use Gecko:

https://www.geckoheadgear.com/our-helmets