Stove: Electric vs Propane

[jjtctaylor]

Despite rarely running low on propane, I can tell ya the galley slave and I hate those stoves and ovens. The heat up the galley, seem to have pitiful flame and appear to cook pretty slow. Maybe there are better products than my force 10.

Hot galley necessitates the hatches open, invariably blows out the flame 3 or 4 times. Nothing but a PITA. Galley slave want off that @#%$#@! boat in a hot rolling anchorage,...... meal prep needs to be fast and easy, not always fruit & cheese.

Next boat want it to cook as FAST as possible with no open flames. Induction and micro-convection for me. Big inverter(s) and batts.

JT

[cat man do]

I looked at electric cookers for oh, about 30 seconds

Somewhere on my 'puter I have a long winded article from Victron Marine touting the merits of electric over other methods.

A quick look at the cost put things back in perspective for me.

Here are some articles about electric cookers and other devices on boats I daresay the one I had was amongst this lot, all sounded very good, until you got to the damage bill.

[donradcliffe]

Professional BoatBuilder - April/May 2008 for the Nigel Calder article about problems with induction cooktops and small gensets.

[Lodesman]

Cat man and don,

Thanks for the articles. Interesting that Reinout Vader at Victron uses an induction cooktop on his own trimaran.

[gosstyla]

Lodesman:
1. The article sited by donradcliffe was the report on the Victron tests I previously mentioned. However, after seeing the Dashew's report of their past year's experience while cruising with no mention of start up load or RF problems I'm certainly willing to give the induction cook top a try. I believe the problem Victron had was more due to the AC gensets and not the induction cooker.

2. Someone in San Diego not experiencing a problem with moisture when cooking with propane during cold weather is not real surprising.

3. Not sure what green efficiency is. However using some simple math it seems from an energy and dollar use standpoint induction cooking is at least as efficient as cooking with propane. Also it seems the Dashew's experience does not disagree with my calculations.

[Lodesman]

Gosstyla,

Calder's report of the Victron test was most enlightening - he didn't actually cite start-up load as being a problem with induction cookers; those were associated with compressors, A/C and so forth. Yes the induction cookers presented a high load - the four-'burner' version they used had a peak load of 7 Kw. They also experienced problems getting the things to work when the frequency of the power-source varied too much; they fixed that with regulators. Vader's personal assessment using a two-'burner' cooktop on board cooking a 3-course meal for four was that it used 50-60 amp-hours with a 24 volt system.

If you do try it out, we'd appreciate the real-world assessment. Cheers.

[cat man do]

A bit off topic, but you need power for the electric cooker.
These are another source of it that I am considering for the boat, running 240v back through some kick arse battery charger to the banks.

ENERGO-TEC

Reckon's they put out 4 kva.

Was wondering if you could then use a household fridge freezer like in these pics

http://www.powerplaycatamarans.com.a...gallery_52.htm

MMmmmm, ice cube maker.

D

[bobfnbw]

Seriously, those that dismiss the idea of induction cooking on board outright are old school.
Thats fine for you, but don't give your opinions as if they are indeed gospel. They are not.

There are many reasons to go with electric cooking on board. I and I for one will be going just that way... or at least a highbred approach.

One 1800 watt induction cooktop running on a 110v circuit, inverter or generator powered. The 3000 watt victron will power it very well.
One sharp convection microwave for the oven. Looking at the new units that also use steam to cook, so its a 4 in 1 cooking tool.
Last is a propane powered large bbq grill on the aft rail for those days I want to cook something large or just burn it a bit.

Really, this whole discussion sounds like the type when computers first came out and people were yelling about how no one would ever take away their typewriter... or some other such nonesense. Times change.
If you have a small boat, and have propane, and are happy with it great. Same goes for a larger boat as well...
But to out of hand dismiss other ways of doing things... just don't make no sense to me.

Induction cooking is NOT the save as electric cooktops that use resistive heat. Not even close.
If you want to heat up your galley, pump explosive gas into your boat, add water load to your otherwise wet environment, and have that stove radiate heat for a while, go right ahead.

I have a commercial gas oven and 6 burner range with a 30" grill at home, and a small induction cook top, and guess what... prefer the induction method of cooking. Its faster, more efficient, and economical. No its not for every boat. But the space where the old propane stove was will not be converted to well insulated refrigerated space and the older refrigerator will be a very well insulated freezer.
Space is tight on a boat, so this is my solution. We will reevaluate it as time goes on. I do not expect the electronics to last as long as a stainless steel stove and oven but its ok, because the technology will evolve and get better.
Bob

[aboutgone]

this has been a great thread................. "steel rigging on a sailboat,it will never work,to heavy"

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

I have a commercial gas oven and 6 burner range with a 30" grill at home, and a small induction cook top, and guess what... prefer the induction method of cooking. Its faster, more efficient, and economical.

How are you measuring this Bob?

I have serious doubts that the cost of the electric cooker, inverters, batteries, generators etc to run it on a boat are more economical than a gas cooker, lines, gas detector and bottle

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by cat man do

How are you measuring this Bob?

I have serious doubts that the cost of the electric cooker, inverters, batteries, generators etc to run it on a boat are more economical than a gas cooker, lines, gas detector and bottle

Well when you put it that way, no its not. But then most of us already have a inverter, batteries etc. The cost of the induction plate was like 150 bucks on sale, usually 400 or so. The genset I want anyway, and its a future purchase.
So therefore its not really a issue with the cost. In fact if you did away with the propane entirely, I guess you would save money, but then its not about saving money to me, its about flexibility, safety, and convince. My boat is my retirement project, and therefore I am willing to spend money on it that I would not if it was just a weekender plan on selling in a few years type of boat.
Its not that I don't want or like propane, but I just don't want it in my boat. On deck on the aft rail is fine. I like to grill. To me its a bonus, as the propane will now last a lot longer. A bonus in places its hard to find.
Bob

[svquest2]

Bob, I have to give you a little more advice that you will think is worth less than what you paid for it. I agree with you that an induction cook-top is safer than Propane but then again so is natural gas. You can hardly ever find natural gas if you are cruising so very few people get it.

I had a philosophy similar to yours when I installed my water-maker. It was a 600 GPD unit that I had to spread all over the boat in component parts to get it all installed. Since my motor was remote from my batteries, and would not fit in my engine, room I went with AC (to use smaller wires). It uses 1700 Watts to run and 1900+ to start. I had 750 AH batteries in my house bank and a 2500 W true sign wave inverter to power my motor. I also have a 3500 Watt Diesel gen set as a back up.

The problem was that my 1900+ AC watt start load drew about 200 DC amps from my batteries, causing them to overheat, and through my batt temp monitoring system would shut down my alt charging system when the main was running. The system thought the heat was caused by overcharging.

Anyway the battery drain was wiping out out my batteries so I always have to run my generator when I make water. This has not been a problem since in the 6 years I cruised the Sea of Cortez I only had to run it about 3 hrs per week and I cary 187 gals of diesel. (Except for the time I had to wait in LaPaz for parts to get my diesel fixed for the generator.)

I would hate to think of having to run the generator every time we wanted to cook.

Propane is not as safe as natural gas or electric but it is not any more dangerous than having a gasoline engine, and propane is the fuel of choice in far away places and for cruising sailors. So to me it's not about the money, it's that propane is the way to go.

Good Luck and always trust your nose

Joe S

[bobfnbw]

No, advice at any cost is always good. In the end though, its up to each of us to do what we think is best. Some times it works out, sometimes not.

Having recently had a boat sink on me, safety is a primary concern. Can't really stress that enough. It kind of drives me here. A sinking I can recover from, a explosive event... and fire.. not so much.

Yeah I know, have a sniffer, a solenoid, use your nose... all that is good advice. But there is still that danger.

Since I use TPPL batteries made by Oddessy, the electrical issues you experienced should not be a issue. And there is a difference between a 1800 watt induction cooker and a electric motor, or maybe not.

Guess I will see. Hope it doesn't bite me in the arse to hard if I am wrong... lol.

Originally Posted by svquest2

Bob, I have to give you a little more advice that you will think is worth less than what you paid for it. I agree with you that an induction cook-top is safer than Propane but then again so is natural gas. You can hardly ever find natural gas if you are cruising so very few people get it.

I had a philosophy similar to yours when I installed my water-maker. It was a 600 GPD unit that I had to spread all over the boat in component parts to get it all installed. Since my motor was remote from my batteries, and would not fit in my engine, room I went with AC (to use smaller wires). It uses 1700 Watts to run and 1900+ to start. I had 750 AH batteries in my house bank and a 2500 W true sign wave inverter to power my motor. I also have a 3500 Watt Diesel gen set as a back up.

The problem was that my 1900+ AC watt start load drew about 200 DC amps from my batteries, causing them to overheat, and through my batt temp monitoring system would shut down my alt charging system when the main was running. The system thought the heat was caused by overcharging.

Anyway the battery drain was wiping out out my batteries so I always have to run my generator when I make water. This has not been a problem since in the 6 years I cruised the Sea of Cortez I only had to run it about 3 hrs per week and I cary 187 gals of diesel. (Except for the time I had to wait in LaPaz for parts to get my diesel fixed for the generator.)

I would hate to think of having to run the generator every time we wanted to cook.

Propane is not as safe as natural gas or electric but it is not any more dangerous than having a gasoline engine, and propane is the fuel of choice in far away places and for cruising sailors. So to me it's not about the money, it's that propane is the way to go.

Good Luck and always trust your nose

Joe S

[bobfnbw]

One more thing....
Ever run out of propane right in the middle of cooking ?
I have and it sucks. Yeah I should have monitored it better... but then how ?
No easy way to do that with propane, and I now have the see thru composite bottles.
With electric you can cook via solar, or genset, or wind, or engine alternator. I can invision being in a far away anchorage, being in the middle of cooking something good in the oven, and... ouch no more gas.
So there are both good and bad of each way.
BTW, having to fire up a generator at 5pm each evening to cook, charge batteries, make water, heat water, maybe cool down the boat prior to sleeping... doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. The new gensets are quiet. And I usualy try to be away from the crowds anyway.
Oh and I wouldn't have a gasoline engine on my boat either.

[clockwork orange]

This has been an interesting thread for sure,i had never even heard if an induction cooker, it almost sounds practical as long as long as it can realistically be run of a battery bank and inverter. If however you need to run the generator to cook then it just dosnt sound feasable, i mean despite your best intentions of firing it up at 5pm there is going to come the time when you dont get back to the boat till,say 8pm and you fire up the genset and run it for an hour or so,now that would just be very inconsiderate to your neigbours. I know that folks think that their modern generators are quiet and if you have insulated the crap out of where its installed it is realativly quiet onboard FOR YOU,not so much for others,perhaps you can rout the exhaust up the mast.When you are in an anchorage and someone runs a "quiet generator" for an hour or so when it shuts down you sure realize how noisy the damn thing really was. Just once on one of these forums i would love to see someone who would factor in consideration for others at the top of their list when weighing the pros and cons of many choices.Solar vs wind generator is another which comes to mind.
Steve.