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Stag71 · 09-01-2016, 13:57

Hi All
I'm in the process of updating the electronics on my sailing boat, the original equipment consists of an old Seavoice vhf and a Garmin 128 chartplotter down below and in the cockpit the instruments are Autohelm st50 wind, depth and speed and there is also a repeater.
The new equipment I have bought so far, Standard Marine GX2200e VHF (NMEA 0183) and a Raymarine a77 chartplotter (NMEA 2000). the problems I see at the moment are that the older installed equipment are NMEA 0183 and the newer chartplotter is NMEA 2000, OK I know the new VHF is NMEA 0183 but I kind of thought that I might run this as a stand alone unit. My questions are? would I be better of installing an Actisence unit to try and get the NMEA systems talking to each other? my other question is regarding depth sounder for this type of chartplotter. as I don't think the one installed will be compatible.
Michael

ka4wja · 12-01-2016, 16:53

Michael,
Much of this has been discussed here before....
If I have the time, I will find some links for you...

But, first off I'm going to give you the "10 marine electronics facts of life"....whether you wish to believe 'em or not, won't change the fact that they are "facts"...

1) Most will buy and install much more than they "need", and usually only a bit more than they'll actually use....and that's not always a bad thing...

2) Whatever devices you buy/install, whatever brand/model, wherever you are....
It is the installation, mounting, wiring, programming, commissioning, and user-knowledge, that will "make" or "break" the system/devices.....
Cheap, off-brand stuff, that is properly installed/mounted/wired/programmed/commissioned/understood, will almost always work better than expensive, name-brand stuff that isn't!!

3) You must differentiate between "needs" and "wants", for YOU and YOUR application...

4) Where you sail/cruise, how you sail/cruise, when you sail/cruise....all will effect your "wants" and "needs"...

5) Your budget will effect not just your purchases, but also your "wants" and "needs"...

6) Although almost heretical, there is no "need" to have all electronics "integrated"....actually, since there is little "need" for most marine electronics, obviously there is little, to no, "need" for integration...

(doesn't mean you shouldn't do it to some extent, just make darn sure that each device/piece will operate independently / on-its-own...and that YOU know how all of these things work, and do not rely on controlling one unit thru/on another, but understand how-to actually use your all of your electronics...)

7) Every boat, every sailor, every cruise, etc. is a bit different....as well as many pieces of gear being different...
So, when speaking in generalities (as we are here), you will get a LOT of opinions and LOTS of "I did this, and it is the only way..."

8) You cannot properly design a marine electronics system in piece-meal / piece-by-piece....as it is a "system", even if it is not integrated....it is a "system", and should be thought of as a system....
(yes, this gets complicated....but, if you actually take your time, do your homework, and read, read, read....you will figure it out)
Unfortunately you have already bought some things....so we'll try to help...but, this does hamstring things!

9) Marine electronics use electricity...duh!
But, this means that your on-board electrical system (supply/storage/charging/distributing) must be figured into your electronics system design...

10) Nobody knows everything!!!
Accept....breath deep....and smile!

Now that I got all of that out...
Let me say that since I don't know where you are at / where you are sailing and cruising, nor do I know what else you may have on-board that you haven't mentioned...
So, I cannot make any specific recommendations, only general ones...

Have a look here, in red...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stag71

Hi All
I'm in the process of updating the electronics on my sailing boat, the original equipment consists of an old Seavoice vhf
(replacing this is a must...so good for you!)

and a Garmin 128 chartplotter down below
and in the cockpit the instruments are Autohelm st50 wind, depth and speed and there is also a repeater.
The Autohelm ST50's are SeaTalk....(proprietary 0183)
Don't know what your "repeater" is??

The new equipment I have bought so far, Standard Marine GX2200e VHF (NMEA 0183)
This is a good Class D VHF-DSC radio (with built-in AIS receiver and GPS receiver), and to send the AIS data out to your plotter, this will use 38.4kb NMEA 0183....NOT the standard 4.8kb NMEA 0183...(but, if for some reason you did not want to send AIS info to your plotter, you can select 4.8kb output and just send the 2200's GPS data somewhere)

You will find many here on CF that have this radio...so, they will be of great help to you (just ask 'em!)

and a Raymarine a77 chartplotter (NMEA 2000).
I'm familiar with the a7, but not the a77....appears these have added support for CHRIP Sonar, Digital Sonar, etc....so I assume they have the same I/O interfaces as the a7...
So, yes....if you wish to send NMEA 0183 data to this unit, you will need a mux (multiplexer)...

the problems I see at the moment are that the older installed equipment are NMEA 0183 and the newer chartplotter is NMEA 2000,
I'm not sure what data from your "older equipment" you'd want on your plotter???
But, if there is some (such as the AIS data / NMEA 0183 at 38.4kb) that you want on the plotter, then you will need a mux...

OK I know the new VHF is NMEA 0183 but I kind of thought that I might run this as a stand alone unit.
Except for using the small screen of the 2200, for looking at AIS targets...this is fine!

My questions are? would I be better of installing an Actisence unit to try and get the NMEA systems talking to each other?
If you desire to integrate things, then yes...and I'm assuming that you do...

If not....then no...
(please read the "facts of life" above)

my other question is regarding depth sounder for this type of chartplotter. as I don't think the one installed will be compatible.
Your best answer here is to look at what your depth sounder is (ST-50 Depth???), and determine if the a77 is compatible...(if it is the ST-50 Depth, then no....the a77 doesn't seem to be compatible....and here again, you'd need a mux...)

Michael

Stag71 · 13-01-2016, 13:25

Hi John,
Firstly many thanks for taking the time to give me all of the information so far I really appreciate it.
I do try to research CF for as much info as possible but I’m guilty of going off on a tangent
OK so I definitely fall into the category of want rather than need too often, I think because this is my first Boat I want it all! If I need it or not. I bought the Chart plotter on impulse rather than research and my original choice was B&G Zeus 2 7 which now thinking would have not raised the same questions. However the price played a major factor.
I live in the UK however my boat a 1980 Oyster 37 is kept in the Netherlands on the Oostershelde. It was my intention to keep her there for at least 18 months while I gain some more experience and then take her on a long journey. So with this in mind I try to look at things for the future as well as now. I think my inexperience will show during this post but hey that’s why I’m here. I have been building a technical folder with all the manuals and instruction books for just about every item or system on the boat, I actually inherited this when I bought her and have been getting it up to date. Incidentally one of the previous owners had sent me a few emails with information about some of the systems on-board. I will look through these for additional data.
I had thought originally that a fully integrated system would be the way to go for instance having AIS on the plotter I think is definitely worth having so I will look at getting a mux.
On the boat at the moment the instruments are mixed there is Navman Repeater, Navman Speed, Autohelm Wind, and Clipper Depth. Apologies I had originally thought the depth and speed had been Autohelm. The actual sounder unit in the hull I’m not sure about. Since I bought her back in April she was pulled out and put on the hard I stripped the bottom back to gelcoat and primocon the bottom then winterised her now until end of March beginning of April. I will go over again in February just to check on things. I knew when I got the boat I would want to get the instruments all updated and budget permitting will do this eventually. She also has some electrical problems for example the navigation lights not working which I believe is from corrosion. So another project is replacing them with LED ones for efficiency. Another addition in the future will be an AIS transponder and some type of Autopilot but this will be just before my adventure.
Looks like I need a methodical approach/ plan and then as the budget allows get each component
OK I really do have a lot more reading to do. Thank you again for the links I will read up on them. You have gave me more information than I had originally expected when I posted my question

Michael

ka4wja · 13-01-2016, 13:41

Michael,
You're very welcome!

I won't over-whelm you with much more, but just a very brief note...

Now that I know where you are at, where you're sailing...

a) You'll love NAVTEX....24/7 weather right there, for free!!
Budget for a NAVTEX receiver...(no need for any "integration" here)

b) Invest more in radar and an AIS transponder (Vesper Watchmate!!), and if budget constrains you then spend less on "chartplotter" and "instruments"...
Any AIS transponder will "integrate" with your new plotter, so no worries there....and you will choose the radar scanner that works with your plotter / MFD (Raymarine if you choose to use the a77....or whatever brand you end up choosing for a plotter/MFD)

c) Fix / update electrical system before adding much more "electronics"....even coastal cruising puts a strain on the "electrical budget"...

Okay, that's all for now...

Fair winds!!

John

Stag71 · 13-01-2016, 13:59

John
I forgot to mention that I do have a Navtex plus receiver and antenna which I got 2nd user some time ago but not fitted yet.
I had looked at XB-8000 Class B AIS Transponder with Built-in WiFi and NMEA 2000 Gateway but will curb my spending now until I get a proper plan in place.

The electrical update will be costly, but I have been looking into this as a matter of priority.

Michael

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