Balmar SG-200 Battery Monitor

[witzgall]

Without getting too deep into specifics, the Smartshunt is not just a shunt. It is not just measuring voltage and current. If there are intermediary devices between it and the battery, it may throw things off. If there is another shunt in the path, then it will at the very least make the learning process longer, and most likely affect to some extent accuracy. It may also not work at all, depending on the wire gauge, distance, shunt rating (50mv, 100mv etc) Truthfully, we have not done extensive testing in this regard, and while we may do some of this in the future, it is not high up on the list of things to devote time to in the lab.

Concerning the distance from the Smartshunt to the battery, engineering has told me it makes surprisingly little difference how close it is. We have not backed that assertion up with lots of lab testing, so it was worded "As close as possible" rather than "Place it within X inches."

Chris

[john61ct]

Yes, remember this unit is not "just" a coulomb counter.

Its "Active Impedance Compensation" methods combined with the data collected by the shunt side are what's supposed to give its higher accuracy and unique ability to estimate SoH "live".

In fact I'm surprised it doesn't need to be directly attached at the posts like the Merlin SmartGauge.

Finally, I think the "PR machine" snark is out of line, and want to thank Balmar management for employing Chris to spend time interacting so directly in public with us customers.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Finally, I think the "PR machine" snark is out of line, and want to thank Balmar management for employing Chris to spend time interacting so directly in public with us customers.

Chris was an active member of this forum long before he worked for CDI/Balmar... In other words he did not wind up here because he works for Balmar, he wound up posting here because he is a cruiser & boat owner.

No matter how much time you put into a product things can happen after product launch that were not accounted for in lab testing. We have over a year of 24/7 testing of the SG200 here and never once tested it in series with another shunt.

I can however echo Chris' sentiments on why it needs to be the closest shunt to the bank. The SG200's SmartShunt is not an ordinary shunt. It does more than just Coulomb count.

[a64pilot]

For the guy with the old style SG that he hasn’t installed yet.
There is nothing “wrong” with the Merlin SG, I have one and see no reason to dump it and buy the new SG.
Unless of course you just have to have the latest, greatest thing.

In truth, largely I guess because I strive to be fully charged daily, my BMS for my Magnum Charger and my SG track within a couple of percent SOC all of the time, and have done so for months, we haven’t been on shorepower since September of last year.
So an effective argument could be made that you don’t even “need” the regular SG, cause it doesn’t tell me anything the BMS on my Magnum Charger doesn’t.

[ayates]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There is nothing “wrong” with the Merlin SG,

For sure. But the new SmartGauge offers a better physical installation, a prettier display, and the upcoming gateway which will allow integration with other components (data logging is my goal with that).

But for just the % number, which is why I acquired the first SmartGauge, I don't expect any difference with the new version.


Allan.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

....So an effective argument could be made that you don’t even “need” the regular SG, cause it doesn’t tell me anything the BMS on my Magnum Charger doesn’t.

That might be so today, but when your batteries get older and you don't change the parameters that a battery monitor needs to work accurately, like Peukerts, Charging Efficiency, and most of all the real Battery Capacity, then your Smartgauge will earn it's investment.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

That might be so today, but when your batteries get older and you don't change the parameters that a battery monitor needs to work accurately, like Peukerts, Charging Efficiency, and most of all the real Battery Capacity, then your Smartgauge will earn it's investment.

I understand, a yearly capacity check would likely provide that info though.
I guess point I’m trying to make is that person doesn’t need to dump his old SG and buy the new one, the old one works just fine.

The exception to that is I guess if you have a Lithium bank, the old one doesn’t support that chemistry and I think the new one does.

[john61ct]

If accurate, the ongoing automated indication of residual capacity (State of Health) would IMO be worth the purchase price, compared to the cost of gear and time / trouble spent running load tests manually.

Having two devices to calibrate against each other is to me an added benefit, especially if one is as well known accurate as Merlin SmartGauge.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

Chris was an active member of this forum long before he worked for CDI/Balmar...

Then the PR Snark is even more out of line, and thanks to both Chris snd Balmar for allowing him to continue.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by john61ct

If accurate, the ongoing automated indication of residual capacity (State of Health) would IMO be worth the purchase price, compared to the cost of gear and time / trouble spent running load tests manually.

Having two devices to calibrate against each other is to me an added benefit, especially if one is as well known accurate as Merlin SmartGauge.

That is why I installed the SG200 on my LFP bank. Assuming accuracy for the SoH, it will tell me whether my charge regime is optimal in realtime, rather than annually.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Then the PR Snark is even more out of line, and thanks to both Chris snd Balmar for allowing him to continue.

Haha...love it!
Excuse me....... while I break out violin and play "sycophant".

I bought my Smart gauge from MS and didn't want to add to
every "man and his dog" queuing his time.
So I contacted Balmar direct and got fobbed off regarding some consideration
for getting a product that they knew had a flaw but failed to inform me.
I never really gave a sh*t about the flaw, I was using it as leverage to maybe
get a free/discounted bluetooth.
That how commerce works here funnily enough. Not in the US?
You get something you don't expect, you ask for consideration.
I'm going to be impressed by this unit, I know it, even with the blemish
and no bluetooth.
Box on.

[lateral]

As an aside, If companies don't monitor social media and respond in these times, I think they are doing themselves a disservice.
Especially when it involves a product added to an existing system that has installation constraints not covered/poorly covered in the manual.
This is where the international term "Best Practice or your product may not function correctly" is recognised.
Equivocation doesn't serve any purpose.

[john61ct]

Not how I roll, I prefer when conditions allow, to do business in the same way I like to conduct my personal life. Minimal confrontation, assuming goodwill and cooperation by default, etc.

What goes around comes around. . .

But I agree once you see sharp practices and bad faith, sometimes need to go into dog-eat-dog mode. I guess I'm lucky in having pretty successfully avoided that most of the time, life's too short.

[rgleason]

Thank you for those observations Maine Sail and john61ct. I've found Balmar to be responsive and helpful with this new product, and Chris' involvement has been a large part of that impression. I am looking forward to using the Balmar App.

[nebster]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

The SG200's SmartShunt is not an ordinary shunt. It does more than just Coulomb count.

Can you tell us what it does? (I don't mean the marketing concept, I mean, what element is in the circuit that makes it sensitive to a shunt between it and the battery terminal...)