Fridge and watermaker on 27' mono?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

Oh Lord ... here we go. Sure you don't want to know about my anchor instead??


I'm on the fence between a Powersurvivor 40E and a Ventura 150. I'll leave it that. ; )

gene since don forced me on this

Ok here goes . If you are dead set on a brand new watermaker I would recommend the venture 200. Its power to output ratio places it well ahead of the rest of the pack.
If going with a good used unit then the powersurvivor35/40 off eBay would be the better way.

Now as to refrigeration while an Engle is good. look into redoing the insulation in your icebox and installing a conversion unit. Yes it's quite a bit more up front but it will save you in space on the long tail as well as increase the resale value a bit.

Now as to your power. 225ah of gc2 will actually only give you about 100 to 125 daily usable ah and that's not enough to run a refer adequately you would do good to double that.
But if you are going from the ground up I would really look into lifepo4 batteries . a bit more on the upfront cost but on the back side many on here are looking at lifespans in excess of 10 years ( they don't have to be fully charged after use for longevity )

on my defender I have 200 watts rigid installed on the rails and 200 flex that can be set on deck as needed.

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

Oh Lord ... here we go. Sure you don't want to know about my anchor instead??


I'm on the fence between a Power survivor 40E and a Ventura 150. I'll leave it that. ; )

I have a friend who just installed a 9 year old Pur 40E He tested it yesterday and it drew between 6 and 2 amps depending on which stroke the piston was on. I guess you could average that at about 4.5 amps when running. His only produces about 1.1 gallons an hour of water. I'm not sure if that's because it's old or water temp. He has an Engle freezer and he says that does draw about 2.5 amps but runs around 80% of the time. He has 300 watts of solar which at high sun does produce about 14 amps. If you are going to be sitting on the hook a lot I dont think a bigger alternator would do much good. I have a honda 2000 and I can get it to crank my battery charger up to around 60 amps (at the cost of about less than a quart of fuel an hour. You could run that for an hour a day and then let the solar top things off.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by newhaul

gene since don forced me on this

Ok here goes .

Erm, so thats's about $20,000 you have just spent on a 1960s 27ft boat

Think I prefer Valmika's solution.

There are a number of mains voltage watermakers sized for use with the Honda 20/22i. Rich Boren, (Third Day) on here runs a company which makes one.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...+day-3180.html

That would give you hot water, mains power and battery charging, if you can find some where to store it. We sold our 20i after fitting solar to save on the weight and space. The combined liferaft and Honda in the cockpit locker made the boat lean over at anchor.

Pete

[a64pilot]

Gen size depends on what you need to drive with it, if your biggest load is less than 1000W, then having a 2.2 KW generator isn’t necessary, except they run very quiet at low loads and not so much at max power.
My 2000 Honda will drive my charger at 100 amps for about 13 or 14 amps, about max for the 2000.
If resale is ever a consideration then buy the 2200, I have a 2000, but would only consider a 2200 myself as it’s 10% more power for the same price. The 2000/2200 are the gold standard and most wanted and therefore the most easily sold at a good price.

I suspect they will all burn almost the same fuel if the load is the same,the biggest difference in the 1000 is price and space required to store it, in my opinion.

Generac also has some highly rated generators, but I have no experience with them, one is about $600 bucks and one about $800, the more expensive one has more bells and whistles than the Honda and is supposedly more quiet.

Running the Diesel to charge batteries is foolish in my opinion, if your expecting to do this for a long time, for one 6 months cruise? Sure why not, but after a couple of years I’d suspect it’s going to cut years off the life of the Diesel and may be more than 50% of its total hours, depending on how much you motor of course.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Erm, so thats's about $20,000 you have just spent on a 1960s 27ft boat

Think I prefer Valmika's solution.

There are a number of mains voltage watermakers sized for use with the Honda 20/22i. Rich Cohen, (Third Day) on here runs a company which makes one.

Pete

???? How do you come up with $20k?

The op says he already has the solar and is looking at the spectra Ventura or the powersurvivor 40e .

And with a clean slate interior it is as good a time as any to consider the switch to Lfp.

[Cheechako]

Options. Give yourself options: Good alternator. Honda Generator. Solar. I would not go with a Power survivor.
People have used the main engine for power needs for about 50 years. All my boats were that way; 21, 26, 30, 44, 47, 42 footers. I had home built diesel 12V gens on a couple. One of those was likely the same Kubota/Beta engine you have. Only one had an additional wind gen. Your little engine will be loaded up plenty with a decent alternator run at high idle and will not suffer at all.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by newhaul

???? How do you come up with $20k?

The op says he already has the solar and is looking at the spectra Ventura or the powersurvivor 40e .

And with a clean slate interior it is as good a time as any to consider the switch to Lfp.

So how much do you think a Ventura, plus LifePO4 bank plus a new fridge is going to cost? You don't have to be exact, the nearest $5000 will do?

Pete

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pete7

So how much do you think a Ventura, plus LifePO4 bank plus a new fridge is going to cost? You don't have to be exact, the nearest $5000 will do?



Pete

That was what I was thinking too.
Some people are in smaller boats to save money, it’s why I think in the long run a $600 or $ 800 generator may be best, but I think refrigeration and especially any kind of Watermaker is going to exceed what you can get out of 300W of panels, and I believe often AC powered Watermaker are less expensive than efficient DC ones like a Spectra, way less.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Pete7

So how much do you think a Ventura, plus LifePO4 bank plus a new fridge is going to cost? You don't have to be exact, the nearest $5000 will do?

Pete

lets see norcold conversion kit $770 upgrade insulation with Cryogel( expensive but best for limited space for insulating) approx $500 ( my install)
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/norco...-kit--14070353
Cryogel® Z – Pacor, Inc.
Cryogel® – Pacor, Inc.

Watermaker Ventura 150 $6300 ( tellie will give better price for forum members)

I can get calb cells for ( 1p4s 100ah 12v bank ) for about $4.00 per ah.
So a 200 ah (2p4s ) battery $800 approx. Plus an additional $100 for a custom high power bms

Battery bank approx $1000

Total would be refrigeration $1270
Watermaker new. $6300
Lfp bank approx $1000

Total I get is $8570.


Powersurvivor 40e new $3700 from landfall
So with new survivor 40e we are at just under $6000
With powersurvivor35 off eBay $1400 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marine-Wate...edirect=mobile

That brings the price down to about
Just under $4000.

Sorry don't see the $20,000 price tag

[Gene Neill]

I'm getting so much good advice here I can't keep up with responding!


Stupid question: Can a 1000W generator charge my bank as quickly and as fuel-efficiently as a 2200W can?


And if using a generator, should I consider a 120V watermaker? Just power it straight from the genny perhaps? If so, any recommendations? I have never once looked at 120V WM's. Price matters, but size and weight matter even more.



Cheechako: I like your "all the above" approach. A lot. I have spoken to Betamarine, and they concur with you on the subject of running the engine at idle.

[Pete7]

The 120v Cruiser RO is 38kgs and $4400
The 12v Spectra 150 is 30kgs and $6000.
Rainman Elec, 28.5kgs and $4000.

This is on top of the $1000 and 20kgs for the Honda 22i.

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

Stupid question: Can a 1000W generator charge my bank as quickly and as fuel-efficiently as a 2200W can?

We know you can run a 40A charger from a 10i honda (actually 900w) and possibly a 60A charger, but nothing else at the same time. You need the Honda 22i for to run a mains WM directly.

[Don C L]

I’m, I hate to be negative, but I know how much room an Albin Vega has. Are you sure it’s all gonna fit? ( I mean all the other accoutrements of life as well)

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

I'm getting so much good advice here I can't keep up with responding!


Stupid question: Can a 1000W generator charge my bank as quickly and as fuel-efficiently as a 2200W can?


And if using a generator, should I consider a 120V watermaker? Just power it straight from the genny perhaps?

You can run a 50 amp charger off of a 1000W generator but that is working it hard, but likely your two wet Cell golf cart batteries will never exceed 50 amps acceptance rate anyway, so that is sort of mute.

As far as running a Watermaker off of a generator, yes, a great many do that. In fact I’d say the Cruise RO is sort of designed, or intended to run off of a Honda 2000, a 1000 will not do it however, it takes the 2000 or the newer 2200.
AC powered watermakers are usually a fraction of the cost of say a Spectra, but they do pretty much require a generator to run them.
From an energy consumption standpoint, they are pigs compared to a Spectra, the Spectra makes several times as much water for the same energy, that is why it’s possible if you have enough Solar to not need a generator if you have a Spectra.
The cheapest I have ever heard of is an inexpensive one out of Fl that uses a Karcher pressure washer to drive it, less than $2,000 I think.

I get 35 gls an hour out of my Cruise RO and it draws about 9.3 amps, that leaves enough power left over to charge my bank with about 40 amps DC, my charger is adjustable.
I make about 200 gls of water for every gallon of gasoline burned, maybe a little less, so figure 1 5 gl can of gas will both charge your battery bank and make you almost 2000 gls of water.

[tworail]

I'll just leave this here for inspiration. Engel cooler for the fridge problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtj7tVZ3uUo

[skipmac]

Fridge is easily doable. If not already done, either redo the existing fridge or icebox or start fresh and insulate the heck out of it. I used 4-6" min of Dow blueboard. I hear some of the high tech stuff has better R value but messier to work with. Don't forget to do really, really good seals on the lid, top opening of course.

I have a large 9-10 cu ft box which includes about 1.5 cu ft of freezer space and a BD50 compressor and last time I checked used less than 50 amp hours/day in August. Less than half that in cooler weather.

The watermaker is a bit more problematic. I think it's false energy economy to get a smaller, low capacity, lower power draw unit. You have to run it a long time to get much water. Instead get one that makes a lot of water and run the engine for an hour or three to power the water maker while making water. Of course that adds up to more $$$ but solves the energy problems.

Add as much solar as possible, even if you can only mount them at anchor. The small Honda gen is not only good for charging but a good backup for when something hits the fan like if your alternator conks out.