Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

[Duct Tape]

I know this particular boat well. Water maker is positioned under the port aft berth leaving very little stowage there. There is a decent size fridge and freezer. It is however impossible to increase tank size on this boat. There litterally is no space.
The engine is under the central settee in the salon with very average access. The genny is under the companion way steps with poor access.
There is a decent size sail locker. However, virtually everything needs to be stowed here as there is no forepeak and no lazz.
There is no where to keep down wind sails, storm sails, spare sails etc. MPS travels on the stb bunk.
Dinghy has to be towed or deflated.
This boat has no aircon and is a sweat box. The black hull doesn't help...an ac unit could be installed in the stb cabin but that means losing the cabin as accommodation and losing even more of the limited stowage space.
That said...this boat sails beautifully and has been maintained by Hinckley for an experienced owner With a large budget.

[Scout 30]

This can really be an amazing website. Post an add for a boat & get first hand knowledge about it. Post a thread like this & actually get some valuable information. You gotta luv that.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by BandB

Jim, while I appreciate good sarcasm, I feel a need to defend the OP. He gave a list of requirements, saying nothing about financial limitations. None of us asked what, if any. But then we all answered from the aspect of financial limitations we personally chose.

Actually, I didn't get into his fiscal status. I really just said that he couldn't get all that stuff into the size boat he was courting.


Now, my response is still it sounds more trawler than sail, but the OP wants sail. So to that, it sounds like a much larger sail boat and one requiring a professional full time crew or, at minimum, tremendous experience in all the electrical and mechanical aspects of a boat and a large supply of parts on board. It is not a boat at that point to be comfortably operated single handed simply because all the electronics and equipment have added greatly to the complexity and the amount of work to be done while sailing. Typically at the size and complexity he's asking about I'd see a crew of three. A captain, a stew and an engineer.

Now if this isn't in the OP's picture, then something does have to go. Either some of his sailing goals or some of the equipment and amenities.

The above quote is from one of the OP's earlier posts. Says he is gonna be single handing at times... no engineer, no crew. Thus my comments about maintenance.

Now I would push this back to the OP as to what his purchase budget limit is and what his budget for annual operating costs are. Has he considered the size and costs to accomplish all he wants?

His later posts have indicated that he will "just buy new" when faced with breakdowns. I tried to point out that this is incompatible with his fantasy (yes, fantasy) about the Tuamotus. He does not seem to understand the realities of actually cruising in a complex vessel.

Then based on that, we'll know whether all the recommendations made here are still appropriate or not. I would predict they are. For instance a 2007 67' Oyster would be in the $2.2 to $2.5 million range and a 2014 80' Sunreef around $6.3 million or something in the 67' range around $3 to $3.5 million. The annual costs of operating any of those, including crew, maintenance, sails, and fuel would be in the range of $300,000 to $400,000.

A trawler in the 60' range can be owner operated but again I wouldn't head across the Atlantic without engineering support and another operator. A 56' Nordhavn Motorsailor would fit in and perhaps cover all his needs. I'm guessing one of those is going to run $3 million to $4 million and while they can be owner operated, one better be prepared for a lot of equipment repairs so I still to a $300,000 to $400,000 annual budget.

Now I throw it back to the OP. Generally there are very few people here with budgets such as that. If yours isn't then you need to go back to your requirements. As you've currently stated them, they take a lot of boat, an expensive boat and a high annual cost. They still can't be accomplished on a 40 something Hinckley. Every boat is a compromise. Are the financial numbers I've shown within your budget or, if not, where are you willing to compromise your original list?

The OP has now indicated that money is not an issue, and perhaps that is so. The realities of cruising are an issue IMO, and I was hoping to bring that inconvenient truth to his attention. In response I got the fascinating information that the OP had been at sea when he was seven, and that sailing in Maine was tricky.

Oh... I agree that your suggestions of a motor cruiser of some sort better fits his requirements, and that your budget sounds about what it will take to achieve his goals.

Jim

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, you seem to have all the answers, and the firm belief that throwing money makes problems go away, and a goodly supply of said money. Wonderful for you... what could possibly go wrong?

Considering all that, I'm left with the question of why are you posting here? What use could we be to you? Perhaps you want us to tell you how great your boat will be, I dunno.

Please do send a postcard when you splash the boat... and another one from your idyllic anchorage in the Tuomotus. We will all admire your accomplishment.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Limited time this morning, so I deem it best to reply to you first, as I don’t want you – and the other members of this fine site – to get the wrong impression.

“Well, you seem to have all the answers, …”

By no means, my friend. In fact, I learned many moons ago that anyone who states that they have nothing more to learn actually “have much more to learn”.

“… and the firm belief that throwing money makes problems go away, … “

I wouldn’t necessarily call the belief “firm”, yet we both know that when you approach a boat yard in need of some work done on your vessel they are going need something more than your nice smile and excellent choice of aftershave. Does money help problems go away? You bet! Without it, where are those problems going to go? With that aside, why do you mention “problems”? I don’t see any problems, I only see challenges and puzzles that are fun to address. I just want to outfit a sailboat in a manner that it provides me with what I need. If I do have a potential problem, it’s 24/7/365 Net access while at sea. That’s a BIG one, and it has me nervous, as constant connectivity is vital to my business. Fun fact? If I cannot solve that problem, I’m not going sailing. But, us Maine folks can be pretty clever sometimes, so I only view the Net topic as something I have to solve. If not, I’ll buy a summer cottage and an AMF Sunfish, and call it a day.

“… and a goodly supply of said money. Wonderful for you... what could possibly go wrong?”

I prefer not to discuss personal finances on this board, yet thanks. I worked long and hard, and am still working long and hard. As stated previously, I’m not clipping coupons, yet many things can potentially “go wrong”.

“Considering all that, I'm left with the question of why are you posting here? What use could we be to you?”

To address your second question first, I actually don’t know what use “you” could be to me. Your somewhat negative tone and veiled condescending sarcasm left me a little cold, so I initially replied in kind. As for the first question, I have much to learn, and have already stated same, numerous times, with “thank you” attached. That’s why I’m here.

“… Perhaps you want us to tell you how great your boat will be, I dunno.”

That’s incorrect. And yes, you do not know.

“Please do send a postcard when you splash the boat... and another one from your idyllic anchorage in the Tuomotus. We will all admire your accomplishment.

Jim”

Thanks, Jim. Maybe after I have a few more posts here, you and I can approach various nautical subjects on a more friendly and adult level.

Wishing you and yours well. Sail safe!

[mnh]

Sir, at the risk of insulting you, your post sounds like a troll.
I've owned a Hinckley 45 custom yawl for 15 years, and there is no way I could put all the land based items you suggest on board. I've lived aboard for months at a time, doing the laundry in the sink, navigating with conventional instruments, AND with my spouse and kids. Either you have not seen a lot of Hinckley's, or your dreaming beyond your means. You would need a much bigger boat. I'd be glad to post my Hinckley experiences and those with their yard, and knowing the Hinckley brothers some up in SW Harbor. But, I do protest sir, your post comes off a bit unrealistic. And I do apologize of I am way off on this one...

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

That is a cool boat! I am a big fan of pilot house boats. Already has a generator.
1985 Hank Hinckley 42 Pilothouse Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Yes, I think so also. Plus, it's Hank Hinckley designed. I admire his work. I'm a little confused as to whether she was built in SW Harbor, or some other place. I suspect that she might not have been built at Hinckley. Could be wrong. Someone commented that she sails well -- and stiff -- when unloaded. I keep looking at her, as she has something I like. Not sure what. She looks substantially equipped, yet dated. I'm not a big fan of an "ash" interior, and she's been sailed and sometimes put away wet, if the photos are a good indication. She's not so clean, yet that doesn't mean that anything is wrong. I like that she's a 42-footer, as I'd mostly be sailing her single-handed -- my Japanese wife knows nothing about sailing, so I'd be spending a lot of solo time topside.

I like the pilot house. It looks like a cozy nook should I have to heave to in a raging storm ... or reef heavy and motor through. However, I really don't want to constantly strain to see over the pilot house from the cockpit helm. That's a thumbs down, for me.

Interesting boat. Unique, she surely is.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

D'day, Mate! Thanks for the comments. No worries. Personally, I refrain from terms such as "fantasy", "practical impossibility", and "not reasonably achievable" when I am not privy to financial details. But, whatever makes your sun shine.

You might have noticed that I'm talking about purchasing a Hinckley, not a Hunter. I'm not clipping coupons, and yes, I will be eating whatever I want, including NY sirloins. You don't like a nice steak? I sure do!

You've entirely missed Jim's point.

You are thinking that throwing money at the boat can miraculously change the laws of physics. That's not going to happen.

You want a Hinkley, a small, cramped, dark boat, and yet want to cram it full of space hungry gear. That's a conflict that financial resources cannot solve.

You want a 100 hp engine, yet you want so much fuel that you won't need to worry about running out. By significantly overpowering the boat what you are fundamentally doing is raising your GPH usage to very little benefit. Yes, you'll have the HP to dig a hole on the rare occasions you need to, but you'll be shooting yourself in the foot in the process.

Honestly, you'd be better served buying a boat that is designed and built for long distance, live aboard cruising instead of one designed for weekends and the occasional 10 day cruise. Money is not going to solve your dilemma with respect to forcing the square peg Hinckley into the round hole of your intended purpose. You're going to need to make compromises.

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

Just so you know, I was in 20-foot swells with 30-foot visibility 5 miles out when I was 7. In Maine, wrong moves equal rocks, not sand. Not too worried about a water maker line coming loose. I'll buy new. Red, right, returning ... and I won't be slapping solar panels all over the foredeck.

Not sure how what you were doing when you were 7 sheds light on your level of experience and preparedness. You need to know how to fix this stuff, period, if you're going on an extended journey. Old stuff, new stuff, it's all the same.

I think that what you are witnessing is not others being condescending or snide, but rather put off by almost boastful attitude that you're going to have it all and just the way you want, thank you very much. In sum it appears that you do not appreciate the feedback you're receiving, and don't have the experience to full comprehend the folly of your fantasy. Thinking you can write a blank check to boat yard for a non-standard installation of anything and reliably end up with anything other than a headache bespeaks your lack of boat ownership experience.

And no, you won't get 27/7/365 internet access, even if some provider promises it to you. Been offshore in well equipped race boats with a critical need for that, and it's a unicorn at the present state of technology. It's slow and unreliable. The cost has come way way down, but the speed and reliability has not gone up much in recent years.

[Duct Tape]

PortClydeMe, if it absolutely has to be a Hinckley, and I understand if it must, then I think the 59 is the one that will accommodate your needs the best. Still comparatively smaller than other boats the same length, it can carry all you need.
I've been on one that held about 300 gallons of fuel, had a washer AND a dryer, genny, water maker, air con, 2 freezers, large fridge, ice maker, decent stowage and davits for the tender. The boat was built for an owner who intended to circumnavigate so had loads of gear packed on. Hinckley did a good job distributing the extra weight evenly but
When the water tanks and fuel tanks were full she was somewhat sluggish. She was however a great boat that could handle everything the sea threw at her.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by mnh

Sir, at the risk of insulting you, your post sounds like a troll.
I've owned a Hinckley 45 custom yawl for 15 years, and there is no way I could put all the land based items you suggest on board. I've lived aboard for months at a time, doing the laundry in the sink, navigating with conventional instruments, AND with my spouse and kids. Either you have not seen a lot of Hinckley's, or your dreaming beyond your means. You would need a much bigger boat. I'd be glad to post my Hinckley experiences and those with their yard, and knowing the Hinckley brothers some up in SW Harbor. But, I do protest sir, your post comes off a bit unrealistic. And I do apologize of I am way off on this one...

No problems, and I take no offense. Also, I'm not delusional. I realize that ANY 42 to 61-foot Hinckley is a poor choice for what I want to do. However, I have a "sickness". I want to take a boat that was not designed for my needs, and somehow make it do what I want. It's certainly not a smart approach, yet I have always loved Hinckleys. In the final analysis, I may very well abandon this idea, yet I want to first suss out all the obstacles and see if I can successfully revise a Hinckley to meet my needs. I may very well lose that battle. One lengthy phone call to SW Harbor might save me a lot of time.

Trolling, you ask? YUP! Spent many years trolling for togue and fresh-water salmon on Lake Wassookaeg. I like fishing, very much.

Thanks for posting.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Duct Tape

PortClydeMe, if it absolutely has to be a Hinckley, and I understand if it must, then I think the 59 is the one that will accommodate your needs the best. Still comparatively smaller than other boats the same length, it can carry all you need.
I've been on one that held about 300 gallons of fuel, had a washer AND a dryer, genny, water maker, air con, 2 freezers, large fridge, ice maker, decent stowage and davits for the tender. The boat was built for an owner who intended to circumnavigate so had loads of gear packed on. Hinckley did a good job distributing the extra weight evenly but
When the water tanks and fuel tanks were full she was somewhat sluggish. She was however a great boat that could handle everything the sea threw at her.

Hi Duct Tape, that's exactly what I'm beginning to realize. I'd love to keep LOA at 42, yet it will involve compromises. My wife has never sailed. She's good to go psychologically, yet I cannot count on her for anything more than galley duties. Maybe in time, who knows. Thus, it will be me alone at the helm.

I envision davits (heavy duty ones!), the correct and most up-to-date electronics, no electrical problems, and as much of the other wants as I can successfully acquire. Still putting much thought to this "not so bright" plan.

Wish I'd never seen that first Hinckley when I was sailing with my father at 10 while departing Vinal Haven. Why did she have to be so beautiful, both inside and out? It's truly a curse!

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Not sure how what you were doing when you were 7 sheds light on your level of experience and preparedness.

Really? If you haven't experienced that scenario, especially in the days before GPS when only a compass, depth sounder, and a chart are at hand (no radar also), then I truly cannot explain it to you in any greater detail. Not trying to sound like a smart ass, yet situations like that are not for the inexperienced! Especially off the coast of Maine. It can get very harsh, very quickly. Folks today have electronic helpers. We didn't.

... but rather put off by almost boastful attitude that you're going to have it all and just the way you want, thank you very much.

That's exactly what I'm going to do, by hook of by crook. Don't mean to come off sounding boastful, yet when I want something I do my best to get it. I realize the realities. Just looking for opinions and good secrets, mostly.

And no, you won't get 27/7/365 internet access, even if some provider promises it to you. Been offshore in well equipped race boats with a critical need for that, and it's a unicorn at the present state of technology. It's slow and unreliable. The cost has come way way down, but the speed and reliability has not gone up much in recent years.

Yup! That's the big one. That could very well sink my plans, regardless of vessel size. I cannot put my business at risk of hitting any rocks, let alone my boat.

[Stumble]

Port,

The more I think of it the more I really think you need to retain someone like Bob Perry. Stage one is to see if he will run the calculations and volume numbers to even try to fit everything you want into an X size boat. Stage two would be a custom design including everything you want into as small a size possible while retaining the things you like about Hinkleys.

This gets you the best of both worlds, a boat that has the styling clues you love, with the equipment you need,and a vessel that isn't so packed with stuff you can't move around inside. Since you have a few years before you need the boat this will likely mesh well with design and built time.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

This can really be an amazing website. Post an add for a boat & get first hand knowledge about it. Post a thread like this & actually get some valuable information. You gotta luv that.

In complete agreement with you! A very nice site.

[RDW]

It is interesting that a lot of posters want to tell OP what to do. He has the money, has the time, he wants a Hinckley. I am sure he can get a lot better advice about getting what he wants from the people that make it there business to satisfy and/or educate new owners with lots of money.
I am being the devils advocate but I see things a little different at times. I saw Walter Conkrite on his 72 Hinckley once. He thought he was sailing his boat. His crew was doing everything and he was setting at the helm. He had been told that a man his age could not sail that big of a boat. He could not but he sure thought he could.
I met a Morris owner that took a 3 day sailing lesson and then bought a 42 foot Morris day sailor. I saw him at his second spring on the boat and I had to show him how to have his engine instruments come on after starting the boat.
My thought is more power to them. They have the money and they are enjoying it. They are also sharing their money with the rest of us by spending more foolish than we would.
Last thought is that I do not think there are any Hinckley family members involved at all now. Morris hired all the best sail people from Hinckley.
rdw

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Port,

The more I think of it the more I really think you need to retain someone like Bob Perry. Stage one is to see if he will run the calculations and volume numbers to even try to fit everything you want into an X size boat. Stage two would be a custom design including everything you want into as small a size possible while retaining the things you like about Hinkleys.

This gets you the best of both worlds, a boat that has the styling clues you love, with the equipment you need,and a vessel that isn't so packed with stuff you can't move around inside. Since you have a few years before you need the boat this will likely mesh well with design and built time.

Thank you, Stumble! Now running out the door, so no time to respond in length. Thanks for the tip!

Also, to all others reading this thread, just want to reiterate that I have lots to learn, so I truly hope that some of my posts don't come off sounding boastful. That's not my M.O. As for funding, I'm not Bill Gates, but I'm doing OK. I wouldn't have signed up here and posted this thread if I was pipe-dreaming. That would be a waste of everyone's time, including mine.

Happy to be a "new" member here.

Best to all,

John