Forward cockpit Schionning Design!

[Training Wheels]

Sailing truly has become an inside sport! Wonder if they have remote cameras to see the sails to trim them from inside?

[tp12]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Looking at numbers, the boat will perform superb, no doubt..
I am not sure whether it was intentional or not but the boat seems to be designed for cold waters..There is no forward cockpit and the aft cockpit is smaller than what Lagoon 40 or 42 is offering. And the helm station inside the saloon..Here in the Med and in the caribbean, the people spend 90% of their life in day time outside the saloon.
I am big fan of Schioning designs and I cannot afford 1.5 mio $ boat. Even if I could, I would only consider this one if I ever decide to turn Cape Horn or plan a North Sea passage

Cheers

Yeloya

Or designed to keep the crew out of the hot sun. Depends which way you want to look at it, I suppose.

I should clarify regarding the price; I have no idea what the price will be. I haven't contacted the builder or anyone and there was no indicative price specified anywhere in the newsletter I got announcing the design. I daresay I'm actually doing them a disservice by guessing. It could be $750k for all I know.

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Sailing truly has become an inside sport! Wonder if they have remote cameras to see the sails to trim them from inside?

There's a hatch above the helm position you can observe the main from and you can view the foresail by stepping forward to the glass. I'd imagine you can easily access the foredeck by opening windows there.

This kind of design is definitely not for everyone but forward cockpit/forward helm positions are in a number of designs. For anyone who single hands often, or double hands in passages (couples etc) where you're effectively single handing it's an easy place to do all your sailing and very safe.

No sun burn and easy access to the galley for a snack, dinner, beverage it's a winner!

[SFer]

The displacement, lightship or loaded, looks impossibly low compared to other high performance 52-ft cats. But maybe I'm getting something mixed up.

Interesting that the mast height is good to go for the ICW. Not a lot of privacy with the heads both located at the bows, but that's perhaps a plausible tradeoff for the potential performance.

[GRIT]

It might be optimistic, but...
The Aussies have very light designs.

Mine is heavy compared to an Aussie design, and the crane weighed it at 14100 lbs (6400kg) with half full tanks, but no mast, rigging, or sailing gear. So if you added another thousand pounds for that stuff, and another thousand for other gear, we'll still be lighter than those numbers. Of course, he's 52! and slightly wider. So kudos to them if they hit the numbers.

Our boat length is 49.5 (15.1m) feet and our beam is 25 (7.6m) feet.

Our friend's Schionning 49 weighs about a tonne and a half, less than we do, and Oram's weigh even less than that.

Though for a production boat, if they hit those numbers, that is quite light.
But if they focus on the numbers, I don't see any reason they couldn't hit those weights.


I'm using the colloquial "weigh" in lieu of the proper "mass"; and of course, "pounds", instead of the proper "Kilograms". For the benefit of those living in countries who have not yet adopted the metric system. (Liberia, Myanmar, and the USA, many Canadians, and many from the UK). I ask forgiveness from everyone else.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Thalas]

Both boats are dead sexy, but a salon helm is not a forward cockpit helm. Whether in a cruising cat or a fast cat, I wanna feel the wind as I sail.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Both boats are dead sexy, but a salon helm is not a forward cockpit helm. Whether in a cruising cat or a fast cat, I wanna feel the wind as I sail.

Yes, thank you, very true. You could always open a window

[css145hs]

Originally Posted by tp12

Competition for Tony Grainger's Ocean Renegade design. It's very 'gunboat'ish'.

https://oceanrenegade.com/

Mine is hull 1. It's been a wild couple years in the making. Should be in the water end of next month or early March, and fully commissioned later in April (transit May-June to FL). The design has evolved somewhat significantly from what's shown on that site. I can't speak for the Renegade branding going forward, but mine is an external forward cockpit for sail controls in a recessed well, the ergonomics of which turned out very well, with the wheel inside, up against the bulkhead. There's throttle controls at the wheel, as well as on the stbd aft quarter. It's a two aft cabin two fwd head layout. Northstar has been doing an amazing job building it and refining it as they progress. I went with them after visiting an earlier boat they built in 2016 (a Schionning GForce 1500C). They don't simply build the design as given, they improve it at almost every turn. They did the same on two other boats I got to see and on this design. Tony Grainger and builders Ash and Clayton Dee (brothers) have been great to work with. They go the extra mile without being asked.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by css145hs

Mine is hull 1. It's been a wild couple years in the making. Should be in the water end of next month or early March, and fully commissioned later in April (transit May-June to FL). The design has evolved somewhat significantly from what's shown on that site. I can't speak for the Renegade branding going forward, but mine is an external forward cockpit for sail controls in a recessed well, the ergonomics of which turned out very well, with the wheel inside, up against the bulkhead. There's throttle controls at the wheel, as well as on the stbd aft quarter. It's a two aft cabin two fwd head layout. Northstar has been doing an amazing job building it and refining it as they progress. I went with them after visiting an earlier boat they built in 2016 (a Schionning GForce 1500C). They don't simply build the design as given, they improve it at almost every turn. They did the same on two other boats I got to see and on this design. Tony Grainger and builders Ash and Clayton Dee (brothers) have been great to work with. They go the extra mile without being asked.

Dude, you've got me and probably a few others salivating at reading this! It sounds awesome; congratulations on going ahead with it.

Any chance you can swing us peasants a few pictures to drool over?

Pretty please

[css145hs]

Originally Posted by tp12

Dude, you've got me and probably a few others salivating at reading this! It sounds awesome; congratulations on going ahead with it.

Any chance you can swing us peasants a few pictures to drool over?

Pretty please

I'm visiting again the 20th-26th this month. I was there early December and they were wrapping up the electrical system. Everything was mid-project and external paint was just starting. If the past boats are any indicator, the finish work goes together very quickly at this stage and a lot is prepped outside the boat ready to be put in.

Here are some pics showing the interesting bits, mainly the fwd cockpit, saloon and aft cockpit entrance. Sorry angles aren't great. The dual doors for the fwd cockpit will have that mid-span between them removed and replaced with glass panels. The head is the furthest along The aft cockpit entrance is a large 5-fold door, so it can be completely opened up. The longeron and forebeam weren't in yet, but might be on the upcoming trip.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q1fshmvsb...4sUi4ifga?dl=0

[tp12]

Originally Posted by css145hs

I'm visiting again the 20th-26th this month. I was there early December and they were wrapping up the electrical system. Everything was mid-project and external paint was just starting. If the past boats are any indicator, the finish work goes together very quickly at this stage and a lot is prepped outside the boat ready to be put in.

Here are some pics showing the interesting bits, mainly the fwd cockpit, saloon and aft cockpit entrance. Sorry angles aren't great. The dual doors for the fwd cockpit will have that mid-span between them removed and replaced with glass panels. The head is the furthest along The aft cockpit entrance is a large 5-fold door, so it can be completely opened up. The longeron and forebeam weren't in yet, but might be on the upcoming trip.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q1fshmvsb...4sUi4ifga?dl=0

Wow, she looks awesome. A proper forward cockpit which, to me, looks to be the perfect dimensions. Do you still have one queen berth forward on the bridgedeck?

[css145hs]

Originally Posted by tp12

Wow, she looks awesome. A proper forward cockpit which, to me, looks to be the perfect dimensions. Do you still have one queen berth forward on the bridgedeck?

No, just the nearly-queen aft bunks in the hulls. The stbd side of the saloon has three areas that also can act as single bunks and one that converts to a full size bunk via the ottomans sliding into the fwd stbd section. So you could sleep 7-8 with 3-4 in the saloon, in a pinch. The boat is primarily designed as a couples liveaboard with occasional guests. The saloon sleeping will mainly be good for watches. I’ll be living aboard full time (currently on a Catalina 400).

You could possibly do a single bunk over bridge deck like the schionning in this thread. However, at least on my boat, those areas are the laundry, watermaker and some storage on one side and the electrical cabinet on the other (batteries and inverters). The latter being substantial since it’s got an all electric kitchen and dive compressor.

You could probably do the forward cockpit more similar to the ocean renegade website depicts which would let you keep the bridge deck cabins, however, that is far less functional for sailing than what we ended up doing (in my opinion). The other problem we had was how to exit from the saloon to the deck, if it’s not recessed the stepping up is quite awkward head-clearance wise. So this fixed a few problems while limiting total number of cabins. Boats, trade offs

That is my one criticism of my boats design.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by css145hs

No, just the nearly-queen aft bunks in the hulls. The stbd side of the saloon has three areas that also can act as single bunks and one that converts to a full size bunk via the ottomans sliding into the fwd stbd section. So you could sleep 7-8 with 3-4 in the saloon, in a pinch. The boat is primarily designed as a couples liveaboard with occasional guests. The saloon sleeping will mainly be good for watches. I’ll be living aboard full time (currently on a Catalina 400).

You could possibly do a single bunk over bridge deck like the schionning in this thread. However, at least on my boat, those areas are the laundry, watermaker and some storage on one side and the electrical cabinet on the other (batteries and inverters). The latter being substantial since it’s got an all electric kitchen and dive compressor.

You could probably do the forward cockpit more similar to the ocean renegade website depicts which would let you keep the bridge deck cabins, however, that is far less functional for sailing than what we ended up doing (in my opinion). The other problem we had was how to exit from the saloon to the deck, if it’s not recessed the stepping up is quite awkward head-clearance wise. So this fixed a few problems while limiting total number of cabins. Boats, trade offs

That is my one criticism of my boats design.

No boat is perfect but the compromises you've chosen are similar to my way of thinking. Pretty similar brief, too. For a couple, a lot of single handing, with guests semi-regularly.

Can't wait to see some pictures. She'll be an awesome boat. Thanks for sharing this with us. It's good to see the design being built

[Dirk01]

There's nothing to add. Congrats!!!
But finally, will you reveal us the final cost?

[BigBeakie]

Originally Posted by css145hs

Mine is hull 1. It's been a wild couple years in the making. Should be in the water end of next month or early March, and fully commissioned later in April (transit May-June to FL). The design has evolved somewhat significantly from what's shown on that site. I can't speak for the Renegade branding going forward, but mine is an external forward cockpit for sail controls in a recessed well, the ergonomics of which turned out very well, with the wheel inside, up against the bulkhead. There's throttle controls at the wheel, as well as on the stbd aft quarter. It's a two aft cabin two fwd head layout. Northstar has been doing an amazing job building it and refining it as they progress. I went with them after visiting an earlier boat they built in 2016 (a Schionning GForce 1500C). They don't simply build the design as given, they improve it at almost every turn. They did the same on two other boats I got to see and on this design. Tony Grainger and builders Ash and Clayton Dee (brothers) have been great to work with. They go the extra mile without being asked.

She's a beauty What has been the elapsed build time to this point, if you don't mind me asking? What do you think the total time will end up being?

[css145hs]

Originally Posted by Dirk01

There's nothing to add. Congrats!!!
But finally, will you reveal us the final cost?

My contract is cost + X% margin, so the final price is a work in progress. The new design came with a fair number of surprises, it's turning out about 25% more than estimated. I was kinda freaking out 5 months back, but am now looking forward to the future as we're nearing completion. The open layout significantly complicated engineering and build requirements. I did get a discount on margin for being first. I believe they are now quoting 10-20% less than a Balance 526 (which is $1.55M fully equipped), but I don't know specifics.