New Lagoon 450 sports top

[peterp]

Interesting new Lagoon 450 'Sports Top' released this year according to this link SCOOP Nautic 2014 - Lagoon annonce 2 voiliers catamarans sans flybridge - ActuNautique.com This 450 has done away with the flybridge. No much info yet, I guess this will be offered as well as the flybridge model, personally I prefer the weather protection provided by my L400 steering station design, so I imagine folk like myself that require a high level of weather protection will find this new model attractive.
Regards Peter

[DavefromNZ]

http://www.yacht.de/typo3temp/pics/5_f643116a8e.jpeg

Actually I was thinking it was a huge mistake and could not see why anyone would buy it in preference to the L450 with flybridge.

# far less protection from the elements. The L450 'Original' has good covers to keep the cockpit dry below and a full Bimini up top. The Sports Top will need its own enclosed and tiny Bimini.
# anyone who has had a flybridge knows the enjoyment of socializing there and also of sailing alone there. Also when it gets rough it is the best place to not feel sea sick.
# less space to allow two or three crew to work the ropes if necessary when sailing.
# the Sport Top seat covers the current external fridge location.
# Loss of easy access to the boom and with the old stack pack, lazy jacks and reefing lines this is essential.
# loss of the fly bridge lounging area with squabs.
# Loss of the saloon window which is covered by the new helm position making the saloon darker.
# a mass and tangle of about 8 ropes all in one location rather than the current spit to port and starboard on the flybridge. And that's not including the traveller ropes and main sheet.

A backward step to give up the flybridge? I think so.

Dave






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[dirkdig]

Go back to the flybridge design of the 440 works perfect.
The 450 lets rain and waves into an otherwise dry cockpit on a 440


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[SoFla Sailor]

Several problems with the 2015 450 fly bridge:

1. Due to the increased freeboard the helmsman is now about 20 stories above the water!

2. The helmsman can't see either stern when going stern to, say for med mooring or simply backing into a slip.

3. Although not unique to L450 FB... hard to see to leeward through the headsail



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[arsenelupiga]

Looks more like L 400.

What can I say, proven design

I have finally decided not to add permanent driver cover as it doesnt look good and affects performance. Loking at temporary solutions.

[Ulstue]

Originally Posted by SoFla Sailor

Several problems with the 2015 450 fly bridge:

1. Due to the increased freeboard the helmsman is now about 20 stories above the water!

2. The helmsman can't see either stern when going stern to, say for med mooring or simply backing into a slip.

3. Although not unique to L450 FB... hard to see to leeward through the headsail

Theoretical: Yes
Practical: No

[Factor]

Lagoon - Sport. Never thought I would see that in the same sentence. Before you Lagoon fan boys get all excited, I am not saying they are a bad thing, just not a sporty thing.

[monte]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

http://www.yacht.de/typo3temp/pics/5_f643116a8e.jpeg

Actually I was thinking it was a huge mistake and could not see why anyone would buy it in preference to the L450 with flybridge.

# far less protection from the elements. The L450 'Original' has good covers to keep the cockpit dry below and a full Bimini up top. The Sports Top will need its own enclosed and tiny Bimini.
# anyone who has had a flybridge knows the enjoyment of socializing there and also of sailing alone there. Also when it gets rough it is the best place to not feel sea sick.
# less space to allow two or three crew to work the ropes if necessary when sailing.
# the Sport Top seat covers the current external fridge location.
# Loss of easy access to the boom and with the old stack pack, lazy jacks and reefing lines this is essential.
# loss of the fly bridge lounging area with squabs.
# Loss of the saloon window which is covered by the new helm position making the saloon darker.
# a mass and tangle of about 8 ropes all in one location rather than the current spit to port and starboard on the flybridge. And that's not including the traveller ropes and main sheet.

A backward step to give up the flybridge? I think so.

Dave






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Personally I'd consider it as a better option for myself and crew. The one thing I don't like about the L450 standard is the separation of the helm from the galley and saloon. In response to your negatives I'll throw in my thoughts.

# far less protection from the elements. The L450 'Original' has good covers to keep the cockpit dry below and a full Bimini up top. The Sports Top will need its own enclosed and tiny Bimini.

Same as the L400 which is a very practical and dry solution. Looks wise I don't think it's ideal, but it'd prefer it to the enclosed 450 flybridge which looks a lot more like a tent with a ton of windage.

# anyone who has had a flybridge knows the enjoyment of socializing there and also of sailing alone there. Also when it gets rough it is the best place to not feel sea sick.

I've met 2 L450 owners that hate the flybridge and wouldn't have bout one if they had known the drawbacks, mainly feeling isolated on watch and exposed to the elements. The helm of the L400 is also the best place to not feel seasick.

# less space to allow two or three crew to work the ropes if necessary when sailing.

There's enough space for 2, 3 would be getting in the way if each other but I can't imagine any tasks that require 3 crew near the helm. Most are managed easily by the helmsman

# the Sport Top seat covers the current external fridge location.

Fridge would be below the seat as in the. L400

# Loss of easy access to the boom and with the old stack pack, lazy jacks and reefing lines this is essential.

I'd hope they lower the boom to a reasonable working height. No need to have it as high as the standard L450

# loss of the fly bridge lounging area with squabs.

# Loss of the saloon window which is covered by the new helm position making the saloon darker.

The same as the L400, the saloon is light and bright enough

# a mass and tangle of about 8 ropes all in one location rather than the current spit to port and starboard on the flybridge. And that's not including the traveller ropes and main sheet.

Same as the L400,L380 and L 39. I can't see any issue with line handling.

I know you are comparing it to your L450 and that's fair enough. Horses for courses. But for me the main reason I went with the L400 was because of the 450 flybridge. If I wanted to upsize the Helia would have been my preferred choice, however this version of the L450 would be enticing.

[DavefromNZ]

Hi Monte,

Sure, each to their own and I recall - pre L450 - where I thought I would never go near a cat, only a keel boat for me. Having a young family made me look at cats and now I would never go back!

One point I would share is that many L450 owners operate their yachts from inside the big saloon if either the weather is bad or if that is where the social scene is. In nice weather or at anchor we tend to be up the top. The factory set up had the joystick. However I fitted a Raymarine E7D chart plotter and a Raymarine remote so have full control from inside apart from the odd sail or engine adjustment. So the flybridge and saloon controls offer the best of both worlds.

Cheers, Dave

[sailingforfun]

Ditto what DavefromNZ just stated. When the weather is nice the fly bridge is great. In fowl weather or socializing navigating from the helm station is perfect. Additionally, Lagoon offers the option "2 B&G cameras under fly bridge" for those who want more assistance stern docking or backing into slips.

My only issue with the fly bridge is the factory bimini is a soft top, so I am having a hard top built in place of it.

[monte]

Yeah I don't know about keeping watch from inside. I have tried it, and it's kind of ok, but I still find a visual all around scan at least every 15mins, especially at night, not looking through glass to be pretty imperative. There's usually some instrument lights from inside reflecting off the Perspex which confuses things, as well as the nav lights on the bow. So yeah it's fine for me for short periods, but not to maintain a proper watch. I know I would want to go to the helm, scan the horizon, check sails etc every 15 mins in open ocean and more like every 5 mins closer to shore so being able to do that without putting on foul weather gear and with minimal effort is important to me. I do see some benefits to the flybridge helm, but for me personally, I see more important ones for the raised bulkhead helm

[DavefromNZ]

Yep I agree that the nav lights provide a significant light distraction at night off the stainless pulpits. I fitted an additional mast head tricolor light with anchor light. So I don't use the lower nav lights when sailing. This one is excellent and the current anchor light wire had 3 wires so worked fine to control it all;

http://www.neptunes-gear.com/index.p...nd-strobe.html


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[RichinBoca]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Yep I agree that the nav lights provide a significant light distraction at night off the stainless pulpits. I fitted an additional mast head tricolor light with anchor light. So I don't use the lower nav lights when sailing. This one is excellent and the current anchor light wire had 3 wires so worked fine to control it all;

http://www.neptunes-gear.com/index.p...nd-strobe.html


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Thanks that's a great find!👍

[monte]

Yeah Dave, I fitted the same light as well after experiencing the reflection on our last cat, and also as backup. Great thing is the photovoltaic anchor light so we just set and forget and it auto turns on and off at dusk/dawn

[owenrms]

Check out this new video of the sport top.
Lagoon Katamaran Deutschland: Top Infos

I think this looks like a winner!