For Sale: Monitor Self-Steering Wind Vane

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Americanrancher

Also not 316 stainless.

...and also not $5,000.00

[Smokeys Kitchen]

We used ours very successfully coming down the west coast from Neah Bay, WA to San Francisco. It did ok downwind - better when winds were over 20kns; and very good on broad and beam reaches in winds of 12 to 13 kns or greater. Didn’t track or steer well in light (<10 kns) winds.

40’ , 15 ton, canoe stern Pacific Seacraft

[Americanrancher]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Really?...These are approaching $6k now. Try to find any self-steering unit less than this unless it's some old funky Aries, missing parts that you cannot find anymore. The 304 unit can have crevice corrosion more so than the 316. But I can tell you one thing...when you don't have to steer on a multi day passage, you will be grateful for every dollar you paid for it.

Cape Horn is $3500 New.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

We used ours very successfully coming down the west coast from Neah Bay, WA to San Francisco. It did ok downwind - better when winds were over 20kns; and very good on broad and beam reaches in winds of 12 to 13 kns or greater. Didn’t track or steer well in light (<10 kns) winds.

40’ , 15 ton, canoe stern Pacific Seacraft

We use our monitor in all conditions. Light wind, strong wind, nearly calms and storms. Upwind, downwind and reaching. We've used it about 95% of the time while sailing (the other 5% is when we are steering ourselves). The autopilot is for motoring. The only time it does not do well is in strong winds under spinnaker. It cannot steer fast enough to correct for the boat's rolling under spinnaker in those conditions. We try it anyway, and sometimes it's OK. Depends on the conditions.

43', 8 ton, IOR racer

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

...and also not $5,000.00

For those that go for looks over function 316 stainless is wonderful. For real work 304 fine just not as bright and shiny but STRONGER than 316. 304 does just fine where strength and corresponding possible reduction in weight make a difference.

The Monitor is/was a rip-off of the Aries which I've sailed 5 figure miles with it doing the steering. They are very sensitive and in most cases will steer the boat better than tired/bored human. The work better with a tiller but 50' wheel steered boats have been helmed just fine by Pendulum-Servo vanes which the Monitor, Aries, Cap Horn, WindPilot, etc, etc are. They don't like DDW sailing in light air because the boat can sail out from under the prevailing wind. They will do just fine DDW in typical trade wind conditions where most long range cruisers will use them. To me one of their biggest pluses is they are dead quiet with none of that constant whirring of an auto-pilot. Oh yes, they don't voraciously chomp down on electrons whose supply can more than double the cost of a vane.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by roverhi

For those that go for looks over function 316 stainless is wonderful. For real work 304 fine just not as bright and shiny but STRONGER than 316. 304 does just fine where strength and corresponding possible reduction in weight make a difference.

We see this kind of argument frequently. "get the XYZ, because it is best"

It's like, this phone is better than that phone because it has a 5.5 GHZ processor and the other one only has a 5.45ghz processor...

Duh, lets not fall in love with the numbers which are irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.

I have no idea whether my monitor is 304 or 316. It looks fine and it is plenty strong.

Are you suggesting that when we go to look at a used Monitor we should ask the question: "Is it 304 or 316?"

[Celestialsailor]

Ok...I am a Toolmaker/Machinist/Engineer of 45 years now. The yield strength of 304 is the same as 316. Because of 316's higher nickle rate, it is less corrosive. Salt water allowed to sit on 304 can cause crevice corrosion over a long period of time. you can help slow down this process by washing down with fresh water. The same applies to rigging.

The quality of welds have a large part to do with crevice corrosion. Cold welds or welds have had to much heat will cause problems. You can have a cosmetic weld that had been electro polished and later have severe crevice corrosion. Another factor is where to stainless came from. I know some imported stainless has been problematic.

[MicHughV]

I had a Monitor vane gear on my first boat for several years, back in the 80'. Bought it used for around $600. It worked well, with some limitations. It requires a learning curve to set it and boat trim on the same dance floor.

I fabricated several different vane blades, to suit different wind conditions, and the OP's pics seems to show several blades, so clearly the unit has seen some use.

I can't remember the last time I saw a sailboat fitted with vane gear self steering. Prior to the electronic autopilot, vane gear was a "had to have" piece of equipment for most anyone planning long ocean voyages.

These days, most any boat I see has davits, dinks, solar panels, etc on the stern, plus huge bimini's, dodgers, and so on, so installing a Monitor would not work as it needs clear and unobstructed air flow.

The Monitor steers to the wind direction, but modern autopilots by compass direction, while they do suck electrons, solar panels generally provide the juice.

Having both is the answer, if you can fit it.

[MicHughV]

I agree with the tiller comment.

The vane attaches to your wheel with a relatively mall diameter hub.
This provides only a small" lever arm" of force. Try steering your boat, with you hands near the hub of the wheel of your boat, say 6" from the center. This will give you a good idea of the force required to turn the wheel of your boat. Do this, while the boat is under sail.

On a tiller, the control lines can be placed near the end of the tiller arm, providing substantially more "lever arm".
My first boat was a center cockpit, so the lines from the vane had to travel a long way to get to the wheel. I found that this distance allowed for "stretch" in the cordage, impacting steering abilities...so I changed this for small diameter plastic covered s/s wire, which I would recommend for any installation.

[flyboyerich]

Originally Posted by wingssail

We see this kind of argument frequently. "get the XYZ, because it is best"



It's like, this phone is better than that phone because it has a 5.5 GHZ processor and the other one only has a 5.45ghz processor...



Duh, lets not fall in love with the numbers which are irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.



I have no idea whether my monitor is 304 or 316. It looks fine and it is plenty strong.



Are you suggesting that when we go to look at a used Monitor we should ask the question: "Is it 304 or 316?"

No, you should ask if it has an 8 digit serial number. If it does, it will guarantee that it has 316 stainless AND a strut guard mounted at the factory plus many of the significant improvements Scanmar has made to the original. There is a reason they switched to 316 stainless. They have made several small changes since 1991, but “the most important thing in buying a used Monitor is to get one with an 8 digit serial number”. That quote is from Suzy Savage at Scanmar and was mentioned in one of the many conversations I have had with her over the past several years in reference to my purchase of 3 different used Monitors.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by flyboyerich

No, you should ask if it has an 8 digit serial number. If it does, it will guarantee that it has 316 stainless AND a strut guard mounted at the factory plus many of the significant improvements Scanmar has made to the original. There is a reason they switched to 316 stainless. They have made several small changes since 1991, but “the most important thing in buying a used Monitor is to get one with an 8 digit serial number”. That quote is from Suzy Savage at Scanmar and was mentioned in one of the many conversations I have had with her over the past several years in reference to my purchase of 3 different used Monitors.

I'm not sure that is the case. I believe they started using serial numbers to...
a)Track units that had dimensional changes.
b)To document changes or rebuilds that a particular unit had.
I believe this was started during the 304 phase.

[MicHughV]

I don't know why the 304 vs. the 316 is such an issue. I got mine " used" back in the 80's
I have no idea what year it was made, or which type of s/s it was, but it worked just fine, without any issues for the 10 odd years it was on my boat. It did get a little discolored as the years went by, but always worked without any issues whatsoever.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I'm not sure that is the case. I believe they started using serial numbers to...
a)Track units that had dimensional changes.
b)To document changes or rebuilds that a particular unit had.
I believe this was started during the 304 phase.

You missed a subtle part of flyboyerich's response, the serial numbers went from 6 digits to 8 digits apparently when they changed to 316 stainless.

So that is just another way of asking if it is 304 or 316.

I am sure all the improvements are good, and 316 is "best", but I still think we get too obsessed with some of the numbers or specs, and might reject a perfectly good device because it's the wrong kind of stainless steel and will only last 40-50 years of hard usage (as mine has).

BTW, I have upgraded my old unit gradually over time for the new spec hinge, the extensive bracing across the vertical tubes, and various bearings and blocks, but the basic structure is perfect, no sign of degradation, and it's got to be 304, since it has 6 digits instead of 8, and it was made in 1987.

[Flagfish]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Really?...These are approaching $6k now. Try to find any self-steering unit less than this unless it's some old funky Aries, missing parts that you cannot find anymore. The 304 unit can have crevice corrosion more so than the 316. But I can tell you one thing...when you don't have to steer on a multi day passage, you will be grateful for every dollar you paid for it.

I built a Walt Murray design windvane with plywood, aluminum and epoxy that's steered me 10,000 n.m. or so, icluding to Hawaii and back. Materials cost probably around $150.

[Fi2010]

Pricing during the recent Annapolis boat show for the Monitor was $4,900 for wheel steering and $4,400 for tiller steering. The stainless extensions are custom built to fit the back of most boats up to approximately the 65 ft. range. A stern light is part of the kit and you have the option for a swing gate; enabling you to swing the wind vane open and use your swim platform or transom door. Monitor even has a custom Pelagic auto pilot that can be connected to the wind vane. The owner of Scanmar is constantly making unique improvements.

Monitor uses serial numbers like all of us manufacturers. It tells us the date of build, lists inspections, and usually we’re able to track any potential defect in parts used to build the equipment. Stainless, fabric, and other parts are made in lots. If there is an unforeseen flaw in the lot you can track it to the items built and pull them off the shelf. Something Scanmar and our company has never had to do. Likely do to high quality inspections.

Like the old adage says, “measure three times and cut once.” It’s actually two, but we add the third to be certain there’s no mistakes.