Hunter, Catalina, Benneteau Debate

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Fishigan

What I learned from this thread is that my search for a sailboat is going to be just like my search for a motorhome. A lot of opinions, a lot of hate for some brands that others love and a lot of agreement on certain brands not being well made. Which actually does help.

But not all opinions are equal. And as we’ve seen, some people post outright lies. Fortunately I can’t see most of the latter, except on the rare occasion someone quotes them.

There is a lot good to consider here. But consider the broad sweep of the question, made broader by other posts. It’s like asking Nissan or Toyota is the better vehicle. Which year? Which model? And most important, how was it maintained? No problem with a Pathfinder that’s had the timing belt replaced (sorta like if all deck hardware has been rebedded, but hey you never know.)

I’d put maintenance above all other factors for BCH. THEN pick the style you like.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by robertmfranklin

I have not read the entire thread but quite a bit with only one reference to Pearson. Are the models too old? Am I too old? I've had, Electra, 30, 35 and a 1972 P36 for the past 42 years. I admit to no real challenging sailing, except coming out of the Cape Cod Canal into Buzzards Bay in the afternoon (anyone whose tried this knows what I mean). However, my P36 had traveled to Bermuda a couple times and to Florida on the outside a couple times. I watch Captain Q compulsively and he mentions favorably many features that remind me of my boat. Dan and Kika on "UMA" have proven this Pearson (at least) is very offshore capable.

I wouldn't mind a comment or two on Pearson, which seems within the same general category as J, B, H & C. (Sabre not so much).

My criticisms of my boat are draft 6 feet. A foot too much freeboard. My compliments are wheel forward at the bridge deck. It sails fast enough. Simple single spreader rid. The interior is Formica with some wood details.

I watch the popular sailing vlogs. The Hunter 36 that Matt and Kristen are destroying looked like a good boat before they got their Home Depot hands on it. But I love them both for their personalities and entertainment value. The Cats don't appeal to me at all. RAN is out of my league. Atticus? I don't get it. Replacing all the standing rigging? Way to much fussing there without any indication what the outrageous cost must be. I guess its just a business expense and the money they must be making from their sailing videos suggests the rest of us have missed the boat unless we are broadcasting.

Pearson comments?

I would be happy to comment. I restore boats...,only because I have to. It's a financial thing. I'm a blue collar guy and unless I do all my own work. If I didn't or could not, I wouldn't be able to afford the hobby. I have a Pearson 365 now. It is a 1979. During that era, they were a step above the JBHC's. I love the interior. A walk in shower! I also own a Westsail 28 which has it's attributes also. I don't expect it to break any speed records. The boat I had prior to those two boats was a Hallberg Rassy 35 Rasmus. Without a doubt superior construction. Layout wise?...because it had an aft cabin the size of a broom closet (and that is being kind to broom closets), it seemed like I was staying on a 30 footer. It would have been a great boat if it had been designed as an aft cockpit.

So sure, the p-365 has a simple interior but easy to clean. The beam is good and has wide decks. So it's not like walking the plank to go forward on the boat. More than adequate lay-up. There is always a trade off no matter what you end up with.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, no, what you said was:



"I’d say Group Beneteau have built more boats this weekend then Catalina have in total ever produced"



And that was, to be polite about it, incorrect and misleading.



Jim

I was being facetious Group Beneteau builds way way more boats then Catalina.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

But not all opinions are equal. And as we’ve seen, some people post outright lies. Fortunately I can’t see most of the latter, except on the rare occasion someone quotes them.



There is a lot good to consider here. But consider the broad sweep of the question, made broader by other posts. It’s like asking Nissan or Toyota is the better vehicle. Which year? Which model? And most important, how was it maintained? No problem with a Pathfinder that’s had the timing belt replaced (sorta like if all deck hardware has been rebedded, but hey you never know.)



I’d put maintenance above all other factors for BCH. THEN pick the style you like.

Picking a boat is a very personal thing. No one factor should be placed above another unless you have reasoned why. People obsess about things that in practice have little bearing on their sailing and boating enjoyment.

As I said most production boats these days will carry their crew to most places leisure sailors want to go. They will do it comfortably and securely too.

After that it’s all personal and subjective

[Rumrace]

Actually OP the best Benny badgers got out sailed by them out produced out bought.
Comparing a regional and bankrupt sailboat company to one with 5 Sailboat lines and 20 power boat lines a little unfair. Architectural modern designs vs buddy has been drawing boats since little.
The Jeanneau SD is a touch less than the SO on the same hull. Air flow over the coach roof one would guess. While you can’t fault Catalina for quality or just survival from 2008 speaks volumes, when are they going to update the coach roof and 1990 look.
You invited her to the dance now dance with her.

[rotrax]

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes

Ikea markets trendy, disposable furniture to women and the short sighted. People who tried to use ikea products daily learned how temporary the stuff is.

A truism I use is ' Opinions are like a##holes - we all have one.'


My home has a mixture of furniture, some new, some old and some really antique. I use daily a 200 year old double drop arm Chesterfield. I am sitting on it as I write this. I have other hand made traditional stuff too.


I also use some Ikea products every day. My chosen clothes storage systems are Ikea, as are the bookshelves for my extensive library. I cant fault them for value for money and durability so far.


We have an Ikea basket storage system in the washing machine cupboard on our Island Packet SP Cruiser - the washing machine lives somewhere else on the boat. Again five years use, six months of the year onboard, perfect for our needs and was the right price.


Another truism I like and use is 'True Knowlege is the product of Direct Experience'.


Amazing how many promote an opinion without Direct Experience of the matter under discussion.................................

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by sailtheworld79

While I know this post is going to (in all likelihood) generate an argument I feel it needs to be rehashed for the millionth time and here's why. Hunter and Catalina get a bad rap for no good reason. Benneteau and Jeanneau seem to be well loved for no good reason; allow me to explain myself.

While it is true that Hunter made some less than desirable boats during certain model years there were also periods where their boats were not only good but excellent. Catalina has been a never changing rock more or less since it's inception. Some less than desirable designs and some less than desirable sailing characteristics in certain models sure but their build quality has always remained the same.

Then we have Group Benneteau boats. Iron keels attached to the hull with lags that rust instead of J bolts in lead. This is a built in failure but they were designed to fail. No tabbed bulkheads. Cheap (and subjectively ugly) veneers. Ridiculously shallow bilges. I could go on and on. Benneteau builds boats for one purpose: the charter market. Yes they sell boats to Jonny boat owner but their main market is the charter fleets. As such they have a designed end of life so the charter companies continue to buy new ones.

During the best years of Hunter's production (2003 to 2007) the larger cruising boats had tabbed bulkheads. Deep bilges. Kevlar in the load areas. Lead keels attached with oversized J bolts and backers. Further, the interiors were stick built instead of having exposed fiberglass everywhere in the furniture. You can take apart every piece of furniture in a Hunter and modify or rebuild it to your hearts content. They're fast, handle extremely well and have a ton of space. Folks gripe about the B&R rigs but those folks are completely ignorant as to the engineering of said rig. It's simple geometry and if you maintain it, it'll take you anywhere.

Catalina being the manufacturing rock they are has never really changed their construction methods. Hand laid hull, lead keel, hull pan, deck mold with a shoebox joint. You really can't go wrong buying the mkii version of any of them. Yeah, some of the mki versions didn't do so hot off the wind and some of them had really poorly designed rudders but their larger boats make excellent cruisers for pretty much anywhere. No radical designs (Benneteau Jeanneau) just a solid cruising boat for the ages.

And to me. I've restored, refit and delivered boats for the last 20 years and currently work in management for a sailboat manufacturer who will remain nameless (not Catalina or Hunter). I've been aboard and sailed long miles on all of the boats mentioned and I'm well versed on how they're all put together and what their shortcomings are. I've owned 2 Catalina's an O'Day an Irwin, a custom Rhodes design, a Hunter (to name a few) and a bunch of sailing dinghies. I would love it if ANY of you can objectively tell me why a Hunter built between 2003 and 2007 or a Catalina of any vintage is a bad boat and I'd really love it if ANY of you can tell me why ANY Group Benneteau boat from ANY vintage is a good boat. I wish you luck, let the "discussion" begin

I used to buy and sell auction boats to support my own habit, not a lot but enough to earn a few things. Out of the group Catalinas were the best build quality, with decent hardware.
Bene's prior to 2000 were OK, but have since gotten cheaper and cheaper in their build quality and fit out.
Hunters have been all over the place over the years depending on when and where they were built, some good, some bad.
Of used boats the Catalinas fared best over time.

[goboatingnow]

One can say what one likes but Bennys, Jenny’s and BAVs of old and recent vintage can be found crossing oceans all over the world.

[Rumrace]

Yes goboatin. I think it’s great to discuss brand model issues to share caution. All of them had lemons and all of them make great boats. Not too many single hull mindset manufactures have survived.
Barvaria would not have survived without its power boat sales and eventual acquisition.
That they scrapped the C65 before we really got to see it seemed reckless but they gave the boat 2 thumbs down and shelved the project. The 57 being the Queen for now.
Jeanneau passed 70 hulls on the 64 and cleaned up the cockpit some on the 65. Meanwhile the new 60 kicks its as.
In another thread someone suggested Hanse interiors where better than Beneteau. Actually they are the same laminates. All of them can surprise you on floor wood and never stopping squeaking.
In another thread owners of the Jeanneau Deck Salon version. The various years and models show important change like the quarter birth going from one opening port to three. They were not discounting their boats actually seeking out the same Premium Jeanneau with changes they like in newer models.
I’m not stuck on any brand for next boat.
I didn’t like Dufours solution for a bow thruster. I’m not sure the salesman was sane or the statement was correct. He said to add a bow thruster they had to run hoses from the motor. mmmmm
I also like my twin rudders. That said Dufours are such beautiful boats with a great history. I love X yacht but won’t live long enough to push a carbon hull to its limit. I do love all things Danish so I installed Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 3 Speakers in the cabin of a French boat. Bose removed but still loved for old 2 wire tech. Bose 151 for outdoors. You may choose Bowes Wilkins or something made in China. I won’t sell the boat with my speakers because they are too extreme to bother explaining. The Bose are stored in factory boxes.
I know a fella with a stunning Hanse. Grey with red wheels. Red wheels would look like a chicken on my white boat. The fashion police would bust us.

[S/V Illusion]

They are all essentially the same, made to the same market price and of the same general quality. The only difference being people’s opinion, usually formed based on nothing more than a limited perspective.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

They are all essentially the same, made to the same market price and of the same general quality. The only difference being people’s opinion, usually formed based on nothing more than a limited perspective.

Same price target doesn't necessarily mean same quality. They all have compromises to hit that price target, but they don't all make the same compromises.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Same price target doesn't necessarily mean same quality. They all have compromises to hit that price target, but they don't all make the same compromises.

Yea, they do as I said, they are “essentially” the same overall in build and outfitted quality. Minor differences are just that - minor. What we have here is nothing more than ‘within the margins’ differences of no real significance.

Some people think the differences between Chevy, Ford and Chrysler are important.

[wpatch]

All things end up being a compromise of choices and decisions. I think the folks that say pick the right boat for you have the right mentality.

I am in the process of going through survey and sea trial on a new boat. (Yes it is one of the 3 above). It's an 04 Hunter 36. I almost bought a Benne though, and I like the catalinas. (Ok to be honest I kinda like all boats, walking a dock makes me feel like a kid generally.)

The Hunter I am buying though spent most of her life as a school boat and then was owned by someone who lovingly maintained her. This is what made her the right boat for me.

Boats are ultimately the combination of design, manufacturing, and their experiences. Any one of three can cause problems or be high points, but for any of your Catalina or Benneteau owners who are proud of your boats, do so proudly and remember we are lucky to be able to have them:-) (Oh and I hereby invite you for drinks!)

The rest of you who want to **** on boats...I think you may have lost some of that wonder that brought you into sailing in the first place, and for that I am sorry.

[Rumrace]

Exactly wpatch. I really like my neighbours. Don’t care what brand they run. The new Jeanneau 43 powerboat winds my watch. Cigarette building a yacht. I just want to take off my shoes and see one. When I was in Surfers Paradise in Aus I walked into their club. Mustang boats had a big display of power boats and Beneteau had 2 new sailer on display. The salesman insisted I took out the mustang 400 with sweet V6 Diesels despite I was a tourist. He confesses was time for a run

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by wpatch

All things end up being a compromise of choices and decisions. I think the folks that say pick the right boat for you have the right mentality.

I am in the process of going through survey and sea trial on a new boat. (Yes it is one of the 3 above). It's an 04 Hunter 36. I almost bought a Benne though, and I like the catalinas. (Ok to be honest I kinda like all boats, walking a dock makes me feel like a kid generally.)

The Hunter I am buying though spent most of her life as a school boat and then was owned by someone who lovingly maintained her. This is what made her the right boat for me.

Boats are ultimately the combination of design, manufacturing, and their experiences. Any one of three can cause problems or be high points, but for any of your Catalina or Benneteau owners who are proud of your boats, do so proudly and remember we are lucky to be able to have them:-) (Oh and I hereby invite you for drinks!)

The rest of you who want to **** on boats...I think you may have lost some of that wonder that brought you into sailing in the first place, and for that I am sorry.

Welcome, and nice first post. I really felt like this was a troll thread when started, and ignored it. Just popped up again and saw your post. I’ve sailed many boats from all three brands. I have my favorite features in each. I’ve yet to find a perfect boat. My current boat however is good for our needs and uses.

And like most boat owners, we are unfaithful lovers… always eyeing a pretty bow or a shapely stern of our “next last boat”!