Old "bluewater" cruiser VS. new Beneteau, Jeanneau etc.

[Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by Stingo

Another thing about Trinidad is that Chagaramaus, where all the boat yards are, is downwind from the oil refineries. This means the boats on the hard turn black within a few months. This will give you serious negotiating power with a seller because "the boat's condition looks nothing like the photographs".
That soot is easily removed with a day or two of pressure washing and then polishing.

Interesting - are there any Trinidad specific websites you can recommend or does everything tend to get listed on yachtworld etc. Or is there a bunch of good stuff there that just doesn't get listed online?

[Stingo]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Interesting - are there any Trinidad specific websites you can recommend or does everything tend to get listed on yachtworld etc. Or is there a bunch of good stuff there that just doesn't get listed online?

There are a few yacht brokers in Chagaramus. I don't remember the names of them, but Google will know.
From memory, it takes well over two years on average for a boat in Trinidad to sell, resulting in the sellers getting desperate. I was told that when I tried to sell my boat there.

[Stingo]

If you're on Fakepoo, there is a group called something like "Trinidad Cruisers". Someone on there might have recent experience

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Where I'm really stuck/confused is whether to go for an old boat or a new one.

Reading about this online, there's a bunch of people saying I should be looking for a 1980's full keeled boat and another bunch of people saying get new (2000's) "plastic" boat with a fin keel and a spade rudder.

This lady just sailed Round the World non-stop on an old full keel boat.

As did 5 other sailors that finished that race.

She won and sailed a Cape George 36.

There were 16 that entered the race.

Golden Globe 2022.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkJdIaIkRno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnw1gBo8mZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMGxzoou6EA

[Stingo]

@Lawnmower check your private messages

[Chris Cringle]

I wouldn’t worry about dieing when your 20 year old Benateau hits a coral reef in the western pacific. It will probably fail long before you make it that far. The ‘bent-in-two’ was only meant to look good at boat shows and impress people who ‘watch lots of you-tube sailing blogs’ they were never meant to be actually put in the ocean. Look for a solidly built, heavy, full keel boat. How she looks inside is nowhere near as important as how she holds together when the **** hits the fan. And it will, oh yes it will.

[Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by Chris Cringle

I wouldn’t worry about dieing when your 20 year old Benateau hits a coral reef in the western pacific. It will probably fail long before you make it that far. The ‘bent-in-two’ was only meant to look good at boat shows and impress people who ‘watch lots of you-tube sailing blogs’ they were never meant to be actually put in the ocean. Look for a solidly built, heavy, full keel boat. How she looks inside is nowhere near as important as how she holds together when the **** hits the fan. And it will, oh yes it will.

What exactly do you think will happen? You reckon the hull will literally snap in half when it gets wavy?

[HuR]

Fun reading through this. While I have sailed most of my life, after dinghies and Hobies, it was mostly on small lakes in small cabin cruisers. At age 63 I retired and went looking for my ocean-sailing boat to cross the Pacific like OP wants to do, and beyond. Spent six weeks up and down the California coast looking at endless boats, big ones were too expensive (budget of $80k) and smaller coastal ones too flimsy (even paid for a $1k survey on one, and bailed). Then through internet research, settled on Pacific Seacraft as the kind of boat I wanted, inbetween full keel and modern fin keel, very sturdy build, long fin keel and skeg-hung rudder. Went to the PNW for four weeks to look at 31, 34, and 37ft models. Decided on the 34 as big enough for family when they visit (slept five going through the canal) but small enough to handle solo, but the 37 would be a candidate if you could find one for less than $100k. Eventually found one for sale in Panama, fully kitted out for ocean sailing, for $40k. Pandemic and right shoulder rotator cuff surgery set me back two years, but six trips to Panama later, and some upgrades, but no watermaker and simple electronics (all of which exhausted my purchasing budget), I set off from Panama solo and had the trip of my life. Now recovering from left shoulder rotator cuff surgery and planning to get back to my boat in Fiji in August to continue second season to Australia. So, with the exception that I was completely comfortable with all sailing aspects, we are in similar situations and you are a lot younger by half, so go for it! Here's my amateurish YT channel if interested. https://www.youtube.com/@SVSeaChange

[rbrazil]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

What do you imagine would have happened in a newish Beneteau?

I’m afraid to think of what would have happened. The construction of newish production boats seems, to me, to be of lesser quality. This is mostly due to cost constraints of building boats vs “the old days.”

The pounding we took shook the boat to the core. Short duration, six-foot peaked waves stacked upon each other.

On a newish production boat I would have been concerned with bulkheads separating, chainplates failing, cabinetry separating from the hull.

Its moments like these we sailors kiss the hull we stand on. No one expects or wants to be in that situation, and 90% of the time it doesn’t matter what kind of boat you have. Its the 10% you need to be prepared for.

[Nautes]

Quite amazing. Kudos to that young lady.

[Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by rbrazil

I’m afraid to think of what would have happened. The construction of newish production boats seems, to me, to be of lesser quality. This is mostly due to cost constraints of building boats vs “the old days.”

The pounding we took shook the boat to the core. Short duration, six-foot peaked waves stacked upon each other.

On a newish production boat I would have been concerned with bulkheads separating, chainplates failing, cabinetry separating from the hull.

Its moments like these we sailors kiss the hull we stand on. No one expects or wants to be in that situation, and 90% of the time it doesn’t matter what kind of boat you have. Its the 10% you need to be prepared for.

You know if there are any data sets out there showing what fraction of particular models of boats sink crossing oceans?

It would be great to have some kind of data...

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

[B]Question:


Reading about this online, there's a bunch of people saying I should be looking for a 1980's full keeled boat and another bunch of people saying get new (2000's) "plastic" boat with a fin keel and a spade rudder.

The situation is not as clean-cut as that. Lots of really good 80's cruising boats that are not full-keeled. In fact, in our experience around the world, the greatest number of boats we saw were built in the 1980s, when the sailing market was booming, and the majority of those were not full keel. I think you need to do a lot more looking, and beyond You Tube.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

You know if there are any data sets out there showing what fraction of particular models of boats sink crossing oceans?

It would be great to have some kind of data...

The sample size would be so small that it would yield so useful data. If you are going to sink your boat, it will be when you something, most likely something connected to the sea bottom.

[Kd9truck]

So I have a 2010 Jeanneau 44i I have sailed it at 40 knots, I don’t like to, I don’t like to sail in those conditions because things break in all boats with that kind of stress load but sooner or later you will need to know what your vessel can do. I have sailed in the same conditions in a heavy displacement vessel in the same conditions. Bothe vessels had their limits and limitations.
There are a lot of voices on this forum and most are sincere in but there are also those who speak from a position of NO first-hand knowledge on the topic. Production vessels have been crossing oceans for 50+ years, if you buy one you will be fine. I would focus on a boat that sails well in 15-25 knot wind, with a strong healthy motor and a full complement of weather tech to stay away from the heavy weather.
Some people will bash the charter fleets, the fact is heavy vessels are slow in everything but heavy wind and they are still slow in heavy weather. The smaller the vessel the slower it will go
The older it is the more things will need to be replaced but those land marks are all along the life span of the boat. Water pumps, toilet equipment, fuel storage, spare everything storage, water making,freezer/ refrigeration, stove, emergency provisions like a life raft, EPERB AIS satellite comms. Dingy and its fuel and storage are all things you will need.

As for boat size right around 45 ft was my cut off, I wanted the biggest vessel I could buy and be able to single hand manually. At this size I have plenty of room for upgrades without having to strap things down on the deck and no craming things in the cabin
.
Smaller boats have smaller storage capacities so shorter self supportive distances mainly with food water and fuel.

If money was not a thing, I would be sailing a 65 ft Oyster, Hylas or Amel, I bought what I could afford. And I am pretty sweet on it.
Even in the 40-50 knot heavy weather I am doing my best to get away from, as every boat short of a deathwish would.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

What do you imagine would have happened in a newish Beneteau?

It would have made it. Yes bouncy, wet and unpleasant but managed just as well.

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Some people will bash the charter fleets, the fact is heavy vessels are slow in everything but heavy wind and they are still slow in heavy weather. The smaller the vessel the slower it will go

Plus maneuverability which is why we won't buy a long keeled yacht, but everyone has a choice. This is ours: