Old "bluewater" cruiser VS. new Beneteau, Jeanneau etc.

[Searles]

An Ingrid 38 GRP will fill the bill ,big comfortable ,internal ballast ,sternhung rudder well protected in board engine and prop ,simple to maintain ,not to quick ,verry safe ,will go to windward with head sails only ⚓️⛵️👍

[Fore and Aft]

Lawnmower I wouldn't stress over cooking while offshore. A client of mine used to provision with frozen pies, potatoes and a bit of cordial. He would just cook a spud and pie then eat them with his bare hands when they were cool enough. He crossed three oceans in a 34 foot Beneteau so his method was well tested.
As a surveyor almost all the yachts I survey are fin keels. Plenty of them have been offshore and survived. I don't think there's any one bad brand. More like bad skippers and bad luck.
Cheers

[Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by HuR

Fun reading through this. While I have sailed most of my life, after dinghies and Hobies, it was mostly on small lakes in small cabin cruisers. At age 63 I retired and went looking for my ocean-sailing boat to cross the Pacific like OP wants to do, and beyond. Spent six weeks up and down the California coast looking at endless boats, big ones were too expensive (budget of $80k) and smaller coastal ones too flimsy (even paid for a $1k survey on one, and bailed). Then through internet research, settled on Pacific Seacraft as the kind of boat I wanted, inbetween full keel and modern fin keel, very sturdy build, long fin keel and skeg-hung rudder. Went to the PNW for four weeks to look at 31, 34, and 37ft models. Decided on the 34 as big enough for family when they visit (slept five going through the canal) but small enough to handle solo, but the 37 would be a candidate if you could find one for less than $100k. Eventually found one for sale in Panama, fully kitted out for ocean sailing, for $40k. Pandemic and right shoulder rotator cuff surgery set me back two years, but six trips to Panama later, and some upgrades, but no watermaker and simple electronics (all of which exhausted my purchasing budget), I set off from Panama solo and had the trip of my life. Now recovering from left shoulder rotator cuff surgery and planning to get back to my boat in Fiji in August to continue second season to Australia. So, with the exception that I was completely comfortable with all sailing aspects, we are in similar situations and you are a lot younger by half, so go for it! Here's my amateurish YT channel if interested. https://www.youtube.com/@SVSeaChange

That's awesome I'll check out your channel + the boat!

Were there any big differences you found sailing across the Pacific vs the sailing you'd done previously?

[boatman61]

Your first 900nm from Panama to the Galapagos will be the most challenging, it's an area of calms and very light winds so you either need to carry enough fuel or have a boat that sails well in light winds and the appropriate sails.. but light wind sailers don't always translate to heavy weather.
From the Galapagos on you'll be broad reaching the 3000nm or so to the Marques as as the winds are predominantly SE.
From there onwards it only get tough when your chosen course is East..
Times from Panama to Marquesas non stop vary from 32 days to 65 days, I did it in 37days with a 54ft ketch.

[Dutchboat]

In the beginning, your drive-train is your best friend. Then, you play with sails to learn your boat. You get good at it, then you see 40 kts.+ and you learn... shorthanded bluewater sailing is akin to serious solo rock climbing. A rock solid boat might be your safety net, but it takes commitment and a good deal of luck to master the skill set. Sail on, Sail on Sailor.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Searles

An Ingrid 38 GRP will fill the bill ,big comfortable ,internal ballast ,sternhung rudder well protected in board engine and prop ,simple to maintain ,not to quick ,verry safe ,will go to windward with head sails only ⚓️⛵️��

You make a good point, it's one of the boats I point to for someone looking towards an older "bluewater" boat, especially for a beginner wanting to cross oceans.
Yes, whilst many of the newer designs/hull forms will give you more "eye space" and higher performance in mild/medium conditions, when things go south they also require more experience to handle. Shallow/highly asymmetric hulls with rigs that reach to the stars have a shorter path from "mild-to-wild" in their characteristics.
You have to stay-on-top of things, you have to "drive" them all the time, they don't "take care of themselves" as well, so to speak.
On the Ingrids, "Bluewater Boats", they are pretty common here in the PNW, the company built multiple scores, (Hundreds?,) of them, and a large percentage were completed by their owners, as such they might be broken down into three groups, "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly".
Ketch rigs are common, being under-ballasted is not unknown.
As with any boat, (no matter the age,) close inspection is needed.
A much more highly refined version of an Ingrid is the Alajuela 38, but as only ~75>80 were built they don't show-up for sale all that often.
A Cape George can be an excellent choice, the 36 that won the GGR is from the same designer as the Ingrid, William Atkin, who knew a thing or three about what was needed in a boat that could be depended upon to take care of its crew.

[carstenb]

I am amazed at some of the opinions voiced here.

We ahve cruised for over 7 years, around europe, cross the atlantic, up and down th e east coast of the US, through the canal, out to polynesia, around polynesia for 18 months, then hawaii up to alaska, down to mexico.


Most of the boats we have seen are "production" boats. Ours is a production boat. we have never (repeat NEVER) been the least bit concerned that our Capri would not survive the conditions we were in because of her design - if anything it would be because of our limitations as sailors.

We have been in most kinds of weather including 8 days close hauled against 30-40 knot winds and 3 meter choppy swells - damned uncomfortable, but we never doubted our boat.

Buy a long keel or buy a fin keel either will take you anywhere you want to go, assuming you have kept the boat in good condition

The limitation is you - not the boat

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by carstenb

I am amazed at some of the opinions voiced here.

It used to be "sport" here to bad mouth "production" boats. So much that since I joined before I had ever even sailed that I passed on them when I got my first boat because of threads.

Now days in the areas I have cruised the only thing you can probably say about old boats and be correct about is that the owners are probably old.

[HuR]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

That's awesome I'll check out your channel + the boat!

Were there any big differences you found sailing across the Pacific vs the sailing you'd done previously?

Yes, of course, could write an essay about it. BUT, I tried my best to get experience sailing in strong conditions on our little local lake. I even bought a small jib for each of the two boats I had (O'Day23 and Tanzer22), so I could go out in up to 30 knots with it and double-reefed main to get comfortable with those conditions, and then took it out (always single-handed) in over 30 knots with just the tiny jib. I learned a lot. But the ocean is a whole different kettle of fish, so to speak.

I knew enough and read enough to know that I wanted to be well protected on board, so in addition to the boat having an original single-hander package with most lines led back to the cockpit, I added the three luff reefing lines coming back so I could reef the main entirely from the cockpit in ease. That was crucial for when you wake up in the middle of the night in a squall and have to put reefs in quickly and safely.

These Pacific Seacrafts are all cutters, and I loved having the small staysail, which I had up almost the entire time, because when overpowered I could quickly furl the entire jib (I had a genoa to start from Panama to the Galapagos, but since there went to 100% jib as the genoa was overpowered in the trades), but still have a foresail up to keep going well.

Three times I had to go forward in rough conditions to douse the main completely, batten down the hatches, and hit my bunk for 24-36 hours while the boat sailed on alone under staysail only, guided by my Pacific Windpilot, a great piece of windvane kit. Those were my roughest nights, all beyond French Polynesia where the weather gets more hectic.

But as others have noted, you can do these kinds of trips in anything from a 27 foot sloop to a 50 foot catamaran, and I saw both extremes, but I would say most boats were fairly conservative monohulls, generally cutters or ketches. I bought my rather conservative boat because I did not have any ocean-sailing experience and wanted a boat that was sea worthy and stronger than me and am very happy with my choice.

[HuR]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Your first 900nm from Panama to the Galapagos will be the most challenging, it's an area of calms and very light winds so you either need to carry enough fuel or have a boat that sails well in light winds and the appropriate sails.. but light wind sailers don't always translate to heavy weather.
From the Galapagos on you'll be broad reaching the 3000nm or so to the Marques as as the winds are predominantly SE.
From there onwards it only get tough when your chosen course is East..
Times from Panama to Marquesas non stop vary from 32 days to 65 days, I did it in 37days with a 54ft ketch.

That was my experience. Getting out of Panama I had a nice northerly (bleed over from the NE Atlantic trades) for two days that got me well offshore, then a day of complete calm followed by the most hellish night of massive thunderstorms and squalls, then a strong southerly that took me over the top of the Galapagos, followed by 30 days of broad-reaching to Nuku Hiva. I took 35 days to the Marquesas from Panama in my PSC34, but arrived on Friday afternoon and was advised not to go ashore (bad advice), so spent two days and nights sailing around the islands without anchoring or going ashore. So 37 days total to Nuku Hiva.

[Nautes]

My goal is to get an Oyster 625 or better. Lots to learn to be sure. Hopefully I will approach it with appropriate humility. I really like this board.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Thanks! Would still go for the same size with two people on board?

Are you referring to the beneteaus I've seen with one long kitchen area facing the seating area? I was wondering how in the hell people manage cooking in a rocky sea with those!

Sure I would go double on a mid 30’s boat. My first two offshore boats were mid 30’s and on the first one there were 3 of us, down to two on the second mid 30’s boat.
The next two offshore boats were 44’ and 42’ but they cost me more to buy, operate and fix. It’s easy to justify bigger boats for a variety of reasons but you have to be able to cut the cheques.
When I first went cruising we were in a 36’ boat and we were mid sized+ compared to others as the average boat size was around 30+ft. If you had a 40’ boat you were one of the bigger boats. The Colombia 50 at the time was the largest production sailboat available.

As to your question on the galley..that design was primarily set up for the charter market where boats were beds and heads it’s not the greatest layout for offshore but it’s doable.
Your better off with a U shaped galley of some sort where you can brace yourself easily and you don’t have far to fall or a true galley design fore and aft with a narrow space between the cabinets. If it’s possible try to get something that has the sink close to the center of the boat and then if your close hauled the sink will drain on either tack. R

[robert sailor]

As far as talk about cheaper liner production boats compared to more expensive stick built boats for offshore use….just keep this in mind. A young man sailed a Catalina 27 around the world and another young man sailed a Lapworth 24 around the world. People row boats across the Atlantic Ocean…are the cheaper boats built as well as more expensive ones..nope…but by and large they are good enough to get around. The smaller you go the more your sailing skills come into play. The downside to smaller boats is the amount of good storage so keep that in mind when your looking. Often newer boats are designed to feel big inside and it works but they are better suited to weekend boats…find something that’s a bit tighter but more storage. Keep in mind storage costs money.

[jbinbi]

If I was going west, I would get an older lagoon or leapird cat. Like a 380 or 400. Great platform if not going upwind. Built to sail across oceans. Lots of room. Easy to singlehand. I think covering 1k mi at 20 deg heel vs. flat means less wear on you. Sure, you don’t get the same workout for your core [emoji4]but if single handing, you are less tired. My 2c.

[boatman61]

With his budget I would suggest a Prout 37.. they have circumnavigated, are a stable platform and are strongly built.