Old "bluewater" cruiser VS. new Beneteau, Jeanneau etc.

[LWatson]

They call them Bendytoys for a reason. For offshore cruising there are more suitable boats.

[nightowle]

Look for boat deals in the "Divorce Capital" of Mexico, usually La Paz or Cabo. So-called, because one of the spouses was convinced blue water cruising was a good idea and that's as far as they got before the marriage ran out of gas and the boat needed to be sold. The other is Langkawi, Malaysia. A lovely island right off the main peninsula. It's the 'end of the road' as far as South Pacific sailing goes, more or less. Lots of boats left there are put up for sale by folks with little desire to continue on to Oz or NZ or backtrack to the US or circumnavigate.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

[B] I particularly want to visit remote and uninhabited atolls and islands to photograph wildlife.

Originally Posted by Icarus

I would not chose a high ratio fin keel for cruising,

Lawnmower, the sentence of yours that I quoted is operative.
The sentence I quoted by Icarus is a good answer as to why a deep fin may not work out so well for visiting uninhabited/remote places.
An inexperienced sailor that goes poking around such places, (that may be poorly charted,) with a deep fin keel and an unsupported rudder is asking for trouble.
Deep high aspect fins and spade rudders are performance attributes, they contribute nothing to seakindlyness or a boats day-to-day livability.
They contribute zero "peace-of-mind" in more-or-less unknown waters, fragility is their nature.

[BlackOak]

Get yourself an old full keel 35ft x 12ft witha good diesel engine, decent sails, new upgraded standing rigging correctly tuned, autopilot(windvane), electronic charts, sat phone, epirb, hard bottom dinghy, liferaft, 50 lbs rice, 10 cases cornhash or spam, canned veggies & fruit, 100 gallons water & diesel, case of oil, bag full of tools & wires & engine parts & duct tape.

Have someone point you in the right direction and head on out. After the 3rd day of seeing no land you will realize that this was the most dumbass thing you have ever done and will crave land & a cheese burger.

Just remember one thing, everyone dies eventually and thats the worst thing that could happen. Live wondering or die doing.

[blazing928]

I’ve read that often boats are cheaper in the pacific islands or Asia , as cruisers finish their journey , sell up and head back to home.
Maybe a Warren Catamaran?
There are a few YouTube videos on those..sailing tangaroa and sailing lucky fish.
Fast with very small rigs, beachable.
Lifting keel boat for shallow waters and broad reaching….

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Question: Am I going to die if I go cruising solo around remote/poorly charted Pacific atolls in a 2001-2008 40 foot Beneteau? Will my mast and keel fall off? Should I be looking at other boats?

Background:

I'm new to sailing and have the goal of crossing the Pacific solo. I particularly want to visit remote and uninhabited atolls and islands to photograph wildlife.

I'd love a catamaran as I like the idea of a shallower draft giving more access to anchorages, however I have a max budget of $125,000 including upgrades so that pretty much limits me to monohulls.

I've been looking at boats in the 40 foot and under range as I get the impression that any bigger gets tricky single handed (not to mention the additional expense).

Where I'm really stuck/confused is whether to go for an old boat or a new one.

Reading about this online, there's a bunch of people saying I should be looking for a 1980's full keeled boat and another bunch of people saying get new (2000's) "plastic" boat with a fin keel and a spade rudder.

I've watched a whole bunch of Youtube channels and I get the impression that people who went for an older boat seem to spend all of their time fixing them. These old boats also look like crap inside.

Buy whatever you can sell easily with minimum loss. Live aboard cruising is challenging. Those without a pocketbook or experience often give up. Not all but most. Try to protect the bulk of your investment with something you can resell if this lifestyle is not what you've imagined.
Good luck.

[Jaimesan]

I would not be that worried about experience but about the ship itself.
I also wanted to get a ship to sail from Med to Asia through Indian Ocean.
Concerns are about safety by humans over there and also about weather exposure since Mediterranean is quite calm in comparison.
With any ship you purchase you can practice and get used to it and its response to your sailing skills and manners.
But my concern is about the seas themselves. After sailing in Indonesia I have realised that the typical European ships are too exposed to floating logs, tree branches, fishing boxes and general rubbish around. Low hanging rudders and exposed propellers would get damaged against the first log and would be difficult to repair, that is my main concern. Other ships used locally have longer keels and protected rudders held by top and bottom of the rudder and protected propellers which are more sturdy and easier to repair.
The experience you get it before the long trip or along the trip if you are cautious and mindful sailor.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by carstenb

running out of popcorn

you waste popcorn on these threads

I can write out the responses ahead of time

[glanrock]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

you waste popcorn on these threads

I can write out the responses ahead of time

Exactly this


These conversations are all over the forum. The OP could simply scan back to them and read the hundreds of replies and save time.

[wgerstmyer]

All these comments have sense in them, though I can’t agree that the new boats are as safe.
Frankly, your goals are grandiose for your experience. Building up to your goals is the safest way to achieve them as it is not the things you think, or “plan”, might happen (ie mast or keel) but a hundred other things. Each has the potential to stop you in your tracks. Each will remind you that “cruising is fixing your boat in exotic places.” This happens just day-trip hopping down the coast to Baja. Try it. Get used to the unexpected. Now consider you’ll be miles offshore and no place to send spare parts to for the next X days so you’ll have to McGyver a way to your next location. Now “Pretty interior” won’t do as much for you as a bulletproof boat.
You say you’ve tried it for a short period of time and loved it. What have you had to fix in that time? Most anyone who has done this long enough is wise enough to tell you that bit isn’t all love unless you have the skill sets and mindset mentioned above and too many people start with too much cash, drop a lot of cash on their romantic dream, and find out later they won’t come close to recouping that outlay.
If you’re in it for a lifestyle then that’s the long haul—why rush? Spend a few years building up to your supposed ideal on OPB (other people’s boats) before forking over big money. Being crew is simple and cheap. Being the owner is expensive and makes you responsible for all the brand new equipment you have to buy (that, again, you won’t get back but maybe 60c on the dollar).
In this way, you’ll answer your own question by seeing firsthand what it is to “own” boats like you're considering before investing.
Of the ~40 boats of first-time boat people I met in the Bahamas this winter, 5 were exasperated by the experience and were getting out. All of them had sold everything (or invested lots) and hadn’t built up to their dream—and the Bahamas are only one overnight sail away from Florida!! Very few of the others had experienced any troubles. But if they had I wonder how many more would have fallen into that category….
Bottom line for me is that a sailboat is a fine athlete and wants to sail (and you obviously must enjoy the sailing part) but the ocean and weather are powerful and the athlete will do marvelously with minimal weight of materials but will eventually get overwhelmed and something gives. If it still gives you pleasure to restore your athlete each time then this life style can be sustained long term. If not, you’re in the wrong sport.
Good luck in all your endeavors.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Question: Am I going to die if I go cruising solo around remote/poorly charted Pacific atolls in a 2001-2008 40 foot Beneteau? Will my mast and keel fall off? Should I be looking at other boats?

Background:

I'm new to sailing and have the goal of crossing the Pacific solo. I particularly want to visit remote and uninhabited atolls and islands to photograph wildlife.

I'd love a catamaran as I like the idea of a shallower draft giving more access to anchorages, however I have a max budget of $125,000 including upgrades so that pretty much limits me to monohulls.

I've been looking at boats in the 40 foot and under range as I get the impression that any bigger gets tricky single handed (not to mention the additional expense).

Where I'm really stuck/confused is whether to go for an old boat or a new one.

Reading about this online, there's a bunch of people saying I should be looking for a 1980's full keeled boat and another bunch of people saying get new (2000's) "plastic" boat with a fin keel and a spade rudder.

I've watched a whole bunch of Youtube channels and I get the impression that people who went for an older boat seem to spend all of their time fixing them. These old boats also look like crap inside.

After sailing for 15 years on two previous boats (Tanzer 22, San Juan 28) I tested the latter by circumnavigating Vancouver Island, British Columbia for my first Pacific Ocean experience. That convinced me that I needed a boat designed and constructed for offshore waters. I spent five years building a sailboat database of over 3000 boats in the rig configurations offered, some boats had numerous offerings. With that I computed the popular ratios SA/DISP, DISP/LWL, BAL/DISP, COMFORT, CAPSIZE, L/B and sorted for the sailboats that met minimum criteria for an objective comparison. I also input my preferences eliminating those with the following: bowsprit, v-drive, saildrive, center board keel, pilothouse, motor sailor, wing/bulb keel, center cockpit, and iron keel. The boat had to be fiberglass, preferably with a slotted-aluminum toe rail and without a painted hull (once you paint them you never stop) and no wood deck.

I ended up with a selection of around 300 boats. Since I was buying used, it came down to what was available and what I could afford...then there are the tradeoffs you must make to get your boat. I visited many boats to get a feel of what I liked, didn't like, and could afford. These visits and numerous boat reviews eliminated those with iron or poorly located fuel tanks and poor fresh-water tankage.

Remember that most important are the hull, keel, rudder, sailboat type (sloop, cutter, etc.), all tankage materials and locations, and engine...these are all things that you can't or don't want to change as they are most difficult or expensive to replace or upgrade.

I ended up with a boat larger than initially thought that performs to my satisfaction and is capable of crossing any ocean safely and comfortably.

Good Luck.

[Siberian Sea]

Unfortunately many of the new boats have been infected by the “ bean counters” doing everything possible to cut corners and increase profits to the company. The liberal use of plastic and cheap cast metals, laminate wood instead of real wood, sail drives instead of direct drives, plastic port lights instead of cast bronze Or stainless. Style and comfort takes first consideration over strength and reliability. Bolt on keels instead of stronger but more expensive incapacitated keels.
In my opinion your better off with a proven older design sea boat then one of the newer Clorox bottle boats. When sh#t happens (and it will) your going to want more boat and less money in the bank. Look at something like a Hans Christian 38 then compare that to a Beneteau 38 and then imagine your there in the cockpit clipped in your safety harness as the wind and waves build in the gale. Look at the cockpit, is it small and secure? Or is it large and can scoop up a ton of sea water. ? Get a vessel you can trust, something overbuilt with heavy rigging. Do this and you will thank me later.

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Question: Am I going to die if I go cruising solo around remote/poorly charted Pacific atolls in a 2001-2008 40 foot Beneteau? Will my mast and keel fall off? Should I be looking at other boats?

Beneteau are prone to loosing their keels and Jeanneau always loose their masts so if you cross these two off your list everything else will be suitable.

Older glass boats have had longer time for the epoxy to cure so they are always stronger than modern builds with green glass, which is important if you are planning on hitting anything frequently.

Don't be put off by a lack of experience, coastal navigation is very difficult and stressful but ocean sailing is easy-as, just set the heading and sit back and relax for a few weeks, when the boat stops your there. Don't forget to post on YouTube so others can fund your holiday.

[Indolent58]

It would be a big timesaver if we set a permanent thread where an AI chatbot argued with itself over ancient slow dungeon-like bluewater boats vs bendy modern death trap condoboats. No need to waste human labor on dreary repetitive tasks.

[dan104]

I just came off a sail from St Thomas USVI to Annapolis, MD, 1500 NM of it blue water. My boat is '89 Gozzard 36, built solidly and traveled through big and small. Skirted a big storm and never felt at risk. At same time there was a production boat B 37 that had to run close into shore and keep ducking in to safe harbors. While we just set a rum line to cheasapeak and bounced around it ducking in to Beaufort, NC to avoid a long motor run into Bay when it looked to drop winds after passing GS.


Give me a solidly built older mono hull any day rather than a cool looking new one.