Old "bluewater" cruiser VS. new Beneteau, Jeanneau etc.

[Popeye3180]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Haha well If it's going to be my home a 40ftr is still going to be a lot smaller than the house I'm used to, I'm also an unusually tall/big person so I'm gonna need a decent size bed.

One other thing is the motion - do you notice a big difference between a 33 and 40?

there is no substitute for waterline and 40 foot of waterline is bit of a magic number for comfort at sea and cost to maintain and handle. But remember even when you are out there cruising 90% of your time will be spent at anchor and you can't afford a yacht that is fast enough to make a serious difference to passage times unless you buy a race boat. (don't do that, I did!) In terms of your experience, I learned to sail in dinghys, went for one sail on a keel boat, felt seasick then bought a 43 foot race boat and cruised it around the south Pacific, learning as I went. No one goes sailing because its the safest option in life.
Have fun, its the greatest community of people in the world, they love to help.

[lifeofreilly57]

I've had both. For coastal cruising I've had a couple lighter production boats, I've also had a heavy weight cruiser too.
Offshore the lighter production boats got knocked around a bit more but the cruising models are capable. Our heavier, encapsulated keel performance cruiser had a smoother ride in rough seas.
The lighter production cruisers moved better in light air, our heavier boat had less strain handling heavy air but was slower in light air. An asymetrical spinaker would've been handy.
If needed, our encapsulated keel (modified fin, skeg rudder) could be beached and laid over (careened), provided everything down below was secured. Shouldn't do that with a bolt on fin keel boat.
It also depends on hull design. A fin keel, balanced rudder boat will feel more responsive, (usually but not always) and back into docks easier. A skeg hung rudder with a longer keel makes it harder to back up, but is steadier at sea which is a good thing if your using windvane steering gear, it also reduces wear and tear on an autopilot.
I've sailed a couple fin keel, balanced rudder boats that were no more maneuverable than my longer keeled boat, so really it comes down to hull design. But they still did back up easier.
Just an odd addition, when we were anchored (which is usually 90% of the time) our boat didn't rock much in bay rollers when other lighter production boats were rocking like a metronome.
It all depends on what your expectations are. I raced several of my boats, but when I went cruising I decided to ease it up a bit, to be easier on the boat, and on the crew, which is why I chose the boat I have. Of course good sail trim will always get you there sooner, some things never change.
Personally, I chose an encapsulated keel boat because we were planning on going to the pacific, but first covid, then an unexpected health issue squashed that, but we did get to live in the Caribbean for 4 years.
Just remember, any boat over 5 years old will need some refitting, electronics, rigging, sails, it depends on its original set up and use.
A new boat will have teething problems, some builders are better than others when it comes to warranty issues, in some cases it's buyer beware.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Siberian Sea

Unfortunately many of the new boats have been infected by the “ bean counters” doing everything possible to cut corners and increase profits to the company.

Funny that my bean counter boat is now as old as those old boats were back 20+ years ago. Just how old does a boat need to be around to make it a "good" boat over just an "older" boat?

BTW - I also still have my 22 year electronics

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Funny that my bean counter boat is now as old as those old boats were back 20+ years ago. Just how old does a boat need to be around to make it a "good" boat over just an "older" boat?

BTW - I also still have my 22 year electronics

Some build better than others, the difference in quality can be stark. Some production boat builders do go really cheap on the hardware, which fails about the time the warranty voids.
Some still build a quality product and stand behind it. I won't call out names, people get too touchy about those things

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

Some build better than others, the difference in quality can be stark. Some production boat builders do go really cheap on the hardware, which fails about the time the warranty voids.
Some still build a quality product and stand behind it. I won't call out names, people get too touchy about those things

I have a Hunter. No builder gets as much forum sh*t experts

[sinnerman]

This is a FREE guide is a good one to read:

https://mahina.com/wp-content/upload...-John-Neal.pdf

John Neal also offers services as a consultant to people looking to purchase offshore cruisers.

I watched his webinar on ASA (American Sailing Association) and he is one of their better presenters.

You can also download the webinars from ASA.
https://asa.com/events/

Cheers

[Nautes]

This is excellent. Thank you so much.

[sinnerman]

One of the points John Neal made in his webinar is that it may be cheaper in the long run to pay more for a newer boat, which is better equipped, than getting a "deal" on a project boat.

New boats will have a much better resale value compared to the price you pay for an older boat and the $$$$$ you shell out to restore it (of which almost none of which is recoverable).

You also get to enjoy the boat faster than spending two years rebuilding it.

cheers

[MJH]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

One of the points John Neal made in his webinar is that it may be cheaper in the long run to pay more for a newer boat, which is better equipped, than getting a "deal" on a project boat.

New boats will have a much better resale value compared to the price you pay for an older boat and the $$$$$ you shell out to restore it (of which almost none of which is recoverable).

You also get to enjoy the boat faster than spending two years rebuilding it.

cheers

There are NEW boats, NEWER boats, OLDER boats, and OLD boats. Every person will have their own span of years for each of those categories.

Truly NEW boats come naked with little to nothing and you have to essentially build your desired boat from the bottom up, figuratively speaking. Don't be naive, it takes additional money, time, and work to make it yours.

For me, truly OLD boats are most distinguished in their cabins. Take a look at a 1960-early 70s boat cabins and you readily see the design/style differences. Its greater than the differences between NEWER and OLDER boats. But, OLD boats can still get you where you want to go if their in good condition and you are satisfied with the outfitting the previous owners have supplied. However, if you are a person that must have the latest and greatest gear and style aboard then you will not be happy.

NEWER boats are generally lighter and brighter with fiberglass cabins and plum bows.

OLDER boats are generally heavier and with wood trim cabins and sweet lines.

No matter what boat you end up with all those outfitting choices/options are essentially the same because all boats come naked onto the market and the outfitting things that make ownership/sailing desirable and fun are the same, i.e. the autopilots, radars, ...whatever. You can even find identical make and model outfitting's on NEWER, OLDER, and OLD boats.

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by MJH

There are NEW boats, NEWER boats, OLDER boats, and OLD boats. Every person will have their own span of years for each of those categories.

Truly NEW boats come naked with little to nothing and you have to essentially build your desired boat from the bottom up, figuratively speaking. Don't be naive, it takes additional money, time, and work to make it yours.

For me, truly OLD boats are most distinguished in their cabins. Take a look at a 1960-early 70s boat cabins and you readily see the design/style differences. Its greater than the differences between NEWER and OLDER boats. But, OLD boats can still get you where you want to go if their in good condition and you are satisfied with the outfitting the previous owners have supplied. However, if you are a person that must have the latest and greatest gear and style aboard then you will not be happy.

NEWER boats are generally lighter and brighter with fiberglass cabins and plum bows.

OLDER boats are generally heavier and with wood trim cabins and sweet lines.

No matter what boat you end up with all those outfitting choices/options are essentially the same because all boats come naked onto the market and the outfitting things that make ownership/sailing desirable and fun are the same, i.e. the autopilots, radars, ...whatever. You can even find identical make and model outfitting's on NEWER, OLDER, and OLD boats.

Agree 100% on this.

In my personal situation I have been fixing up a 1980's Catalina 30 which was kind of neglected, as most older boats can be.

No matter how much $$$ I pour into the boat , it will never be worth anything more than xxx.

Even if I installed gold-plated fixtures throughout the boat, it would have little effect on its resale value.

However, if I had started out with one of the "classic" older sailboats and spent the same $$$ as I did on the Catalina, I would be able to recoup my investment.

These older classic boats (like classic cars) are always in demand...

My two cents

Cheers

.

[pbmaise]

There is a 32 ft long trimaran in the Philippines. It is so cheap you can afford to get spares for everything and maybe fit a watermaker.

No other type of vessel is wider to provide comfort. Further, a trimaran has area to catch drinking water along the way from storms. I am pretty sure I know this vessel. I would just have the sails and engine gone over. Hyde Sails in the Philippines can remake a new wardrobe.

https://www.pgyc.org/sail-boats-for-sale.php

A trimaran is a lot easier to get in and out of atolls. I brought my huge trimaran into several remote atolls and can recommend which ones in FSM to go to.

Note: There is also a steel vessel on the same page above.

And another thing...there is no reason to splurge on expensive electronics. I came to have three cheap laptops all loaded with maps and triple redundant $200 cell phones to provide me with the GPS location.

[Srpulpo]

Originally Posted by Iron E

I'm going to be the negative guy in your thread.

From reading your 3 questions in the forum, I suggest you don't buy a sailboat, but instead, volunteer to crew, join a club, take sailing lessons on different size boats, and go out for the day...weekend, and multi-day.
In the simplest and least expensive way, find out if you even like the lifestyle you're dreaming about.
Good Luck

100%. sail first before you commit to a big boat, also open ocean sailing is nothing like lake or river sailing. you will either love it and be hooked for life or run away.

[northiceman]

Hey Lawnmower - have you decided on a boat yet? A friend of mine just sent me the thread-otherwise I would have given my 5cents earlier. I built my bluewater ketch (began in 1971 and did our first cruise in 1996). Northern Ice has 26K NM and I don't consider her "old" - she is "experienced"! Been up to Labrador and down to Bahamas many times from Canada. A single handers dream (to me) is a 36ft mono. Enough space(lots) for enough food, water, beer for an Atlantic or Pacific crossing. If you have a watermaker(more to break) you can go smaller. Smaller for a singlehander means easier to manage in a big blow (think of how far from cockpit you need to wobble if the headsail gets fouled). In the Atlantic it means "how cold will you be before returning to shelter in cockpit!". If you look at a boat bring someone who has experience in boats to really understand what needs fixin before you sail-beg, buy or kidnap someone to to this! Someone who has built boats is best - the rest of the info you can read without anyones input! An autopilot for a crossing is a must as is a good Viking liferaft that has recently been inspected. When I began Northern Ice the cost of materiels would have been less than $20K (all in). It cost $168K(almost all in !). An experienced boat worth $100K will cost $400K to build !
BTW-full keel, sturdy rudder "hidden" behind the keel, heavy sails(my main is 10oz),prefer hydraulic steering(elec pump assisted for autopilot). All my hydraulic are stainless steel-teflon inner(aircraft grade).
~Captn Ron