Jeanneau and Beneteau

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by j.g.evans

Check the reviews by boat owners. I have found them quite honest. I know of one Benetau that the owners rated as dangerous.
The French boats have iron keels. Check their condition. An iron keel can be a lot of maintenance.
I have also read that their through hulls are brass and not bronze and should be replaced after 5 years. I hope this is not accurate.

Why do you think a cast iron keel is more maintenance? I have two and it's a case of patch painting each year after a quick grind and dab of rust killer. Those keels are going to be around long after me.

You are right about brass through hulls, not the finest regulation that allowed it to come out of Europe. Thankfully older boats tend to be bronze and most of us are replacing with plastic.

Pete

[LF4]

Originally Posted by Don Sloma

My Oceanis 445 (Farr design) came out of the Moorings fleet by way of a charter company in Puget Sound. I bought her for less than half of her new price about 5 years old. I chartered her through a Puget Sound company for several years when I wasn't using her, which paid for everything she needed to come out of charter as a very comfortable, clean and well found family cruiser. She's a lovely young woman now at 28 years of age. In the last 5 years I have repowered, re-rigged (standing and running), new sails and lots more. (It is true that the rigging costs more than the hull!) I don't plan to sell her till I am too old to sail. I'd do all this over again if I were 20 years younger. Beneteau has mass produced boats for the charter trade for many years. To keep doing that for Moorings in the Caribbean, they have refined what they build to meet needs for boats to stand up to open ocean winds, some big water and not infrequent pounding waves. Moorings makes money by allowing anyone to sail their boats in those conditions if they claim to know the pointy end is the front. They make nothing if they pay too much for their fleet, if it is always broken down or if it sails like crap. And the boats must remain safe. So their boats need to be good (not great) quality materials, pleasing designs and easy to work on. They also have to be comfortable enough and good enough performers to satisfy. In other words, a good value. I don't like the thru hulls, the iron keel ($ to keep it epoxy coated) and the cheesyness of some of the lighting and other fancy do dads. They were easy enough to replace if they really offended. If I did it again, I'd look for the newest, cleanest, best priced ex charter I could find and plan to charter it myself for a few years again to get it to pay for its refit. A really high quality comprehensive survey is a must to do it this way. And don't do any fancy stuff refitting until you are ready to take it out of charter. Charter boats are like rental apartments to own. Build in a cleaning and maintenance budget.

I feel I may be in a very similar situation in my life right now that you were 20 years ago. I have a younger family 36/32/7/5 years old respectively and we are FINALLY in the market to buy something with hopes to seat of four a couple of years and take sabbaticals from work in about 4-5 years from now. We would like to see the Bahamas, Caribbean, Central & South America -- maybe further if our bonuses are really, really strong.

I am currently looking at boats in the $15k-$35k range that we can pay cash for so that we can put it on the Delaware river and sail in weekly during the season. However, the Chesapeake Bay is not far from us at all and it would almost be just as easy from us to keep a boat in charter there in some sort of Yacht ownership program.

How does it work when you buy a used charter boat and then put it back into charter with the company? Do you pay cash (full asking price) for the boat, or are you able to put a down payment on the boat and keep it in charter while using it for a few years? I am really interested to know this as it would possibly prevent us from buying the smaller coastal cruiser only to sell the coastal cruiser and buying another "blue water" boat just 4 years later.

I wish this wasn't so complicated. We are also years into this process and have done so much planning...we have probably been overthinking it -- maybe not.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Woah! Just took a hard detour into a completely different thread! On the Chessie, you’ll find a good selection of Catalina 470’s - it’s cheap, rugged & huge- sounds like you’ve got quite the brood!

[LF4]

Originally Posted by Sofa King Fishy

Woah! Just took a hard detour into a completely different thread! On the Chessie, you’ll find a good selection of Catalina 470’s - it’s cheap, rugged & huge- sounds like you’ve got quite the brood!

Did I mention the 1 1/2 year old Brittany Spaniel?

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I went to the Annapolis Spring Sailboat Show in 2019 and the wife and I step on every single boat there over 32ft. I preferred the Sun Odyssey and Oceanis models of brand respectively. However, I really love the layout of the Bavaria 45c. So much so we thought about putting a HELOC on the house to buy one. We clearly didn't let the devil whispering in our ear win and are currently boatless -- with access to only what the local yacht clubs have on offer. (which are all J-Boats in the 21-27 foot range)

[NNBill]

Just a heads up, Beneteau has closed their US manufacturing plant. As of now they are parts and tech support only. I'd be a little concerned down the road if they decide to pull out of the US completely. However buying a used boat, well out of warantee shouldn't be much of a problem since most of the hardware is well known off the shelf stuff.

https://scnow.com/news/local/groupe-...to%2046%20feet.

[Zzmeyer]

Beneteau says they are cutting back on capital investment. If one is afraid of manufactures without US manufacturing capability your choice of boats is very limited.

[Larryo]

Just picking up on this thread and find it interesting.


I came real close to getting the Beneteau 42 recently and am glad I didn't. The killer items were some of the absolutely stupid French designs that just weren't practical, but looked cute. Also, seriously was concerned about support.

[Nomad57]

I looked at Bendys in 2001. My mistake was in looking at new ones. I couldn't keep my eyes open when inside. There was some off-gassing that caused a burning sensation. Smelled like formaldehyde, but dunno.


Nomad

[CarlF]

When looking at a used boat, it's important to remember that the hull and deck is only about 20% of the value. Those do last just about forever. But the other 80% of the boat has a remarkably short lifetime.

So when you buy a 10 year old used boat many parts are 50% or more of the way to the end of their life. You are about half way to a $20,000 engine replacement or rebuild. Your insurance company will probably insist on a $5000 standing rigging replacement every 10 years. A new $5000 dinghy and outboard. $10,000-$20,000 for new sails or the boat will sail terribly.

If the tanks are metal they'll have to be replaced at 20 years. And most people upgrade their electronics for $10k about every 10 years because the manufacturer has stopped making software upgrades and the new stuff is so much better - and incompatible with the old. After 10 years the cushions and beds will have saggy foam, be stained, and be an outdated color your wife hates - $10K. The Plexiglass in the windows and hatches so scratched and hazy you can't see out of them - $5k

And all this assumes the previous owner took good care of the boat. That he didn't run aground too often. The boat never got damaged in a hurricane or partly sank. Didn't let water get into the balsa deck core. He replaced the underwater zincs as needed, recaulked seams and greased seacocks.

That's why new boats - of any brand - are more expensive than a used boat.

[Fbfisher]

Originally Posted by Larryo

Just picking up on this thread and find it interesting.


I came real close to getting the Beneteau 42 recently and am glad I didn't. The killer items were some of the absolutely stupid French designs that just weren't practical, but looked cute. Also, seriously was concerned about support.

I’ve found the support from the customer service team in Marion, SC very responsive. I’ve had nothing but positive experience the few times I’ve needed info or parts from them

I’m interested to know more about what year boat you were looking at and what you found stupid about the design. To us, the 423 seems very sensible, and better in many ways than the 2 cabin Catalina 42s which was our 2nd choice.

[Larryo]

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

I’ve found the support from the customer service team in Marion, SC very responsive. I’ve had nothing but positive experience the few times I’ve needed info or parts from them

I’m interested to know more about what year boat you were looking at and what you found stupid about the design. To us, the 423 seems very sensible, and better in many ways than the 2 cabin Catalina 42s which was our 2nd choice.

Should have clarified, looked at the Beneteau 42 Motor yacht, not a sailboat, which I know nothing about. And the dealer services wasn't the issue, it was the Volvo engine service that was bad. (yes, I've had 3 Volvo engines, and the services and parts supply remains bad).



There's two heads in the boat, BOTH WET showers.... STUPID! And the French sinks, like a pedestal sing is totally inappropriate. Then the mast, just a tad higher that most of the ICW bridges.... they never thought of that. Electrical is confusing. Lots of customer nit picking complaints about small items. I could go on, but won't.


If one fixed all of the above, and got the Yanmar engines, it could be a fine boat.

[capblasters]

We have a 2012 Benneteau Ocenis and am thrilled at how she's behaving 8 years on. Sails well, single-handed or not. Yes, they're production yachts. The Oceanis are built for cruising, the First for racing. Marginal differences of course but essentially the same quality of design.
Benneteau has been popular in the charter businesses likely because of quality/price. That affects the 2nd hand market as they get replaced every 3-5 years depending on the market and the Euro.
Is a 2nd hand charter boat one to go for? A good survey will answer that for you. Watch for things like cracks near the keep attachment, pull the bolts (one at a time) and check them for stress. If they've been sailed hard a good survey will tell you. But in my experience, they're usually a good deal for the savvy buyer. The more you put in ahead of purchase the more satisfied you will be.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Deanosc

Hey everyone so I am seeing a lot of these boats for sail and generally the price seems a lot lower than other boats for newer year models. Is there a specific reason for this? Something in the quality of the build? Cost to maintain? General ability in the ocean?

I am curious because it looks like there is a lot of good deal but I cant help but feel hesitant.

Any explanation would be greatly appreciated.

I'm new to CF, but not new to these boats! I love day-sailing both Bennies and Jennies. They are fast, stable in not-to-challenging conditions, roomy below, and comfy for an overnight or two.

I was on the maiden voyage a brand-spanking new Jenneau recently. A winch jammed and we had to replace it (ok, maybe not Jenneau's fault) and a long strip of siding peeled off from the companionway (that's on them), creating a leak on our first day.

My bet is that if you're planning to cruise harbor to harbor and make fast passages, they are great. The old salts at the marina say they aren't suited to "bluewater passages" but what do I know. For day passage/night living they seem fine.

Here's a picture of the Jenneau 389 at anchor in Provincetown Harbor. Nice boat.

[stulk75]

I wonder how many people who think about buying a former charter boat have chartered said boat, or model, or even an on the way out boat (eg 3-5 years old) from the charter company?

Some of the smaller charter outfits will let you try before you buy, using your week long charter towards the purchase of that boat (or some other boat for their fleet).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

I'm new to CF, but not new to these boats! The old salts at the marina say they aren't suited to "bluewater passages" but what do I know. For day passage/night living they seem fine.

Here's a picture of the Jenneau 389 at anchor in Provincetown Harbor. Nice boat.

Loadsa rubbish.. I have solo'd a Bene 321 from the Caribe to the UK nonstop and a few years later solo'd a Bene 351 from the Caribe via the Azores and Portugal to the UK..
No worries at all.. mind conditions were reasonably benign, worst were a couple of F8's and 6metre seas..