offset or flush mounted jib sheet winches?

[mowerandy]

One of the pads under my jib-sheet winches has rotted out and the other one is on the way. My dilemma in replacement is that I am not entirely sure why they were built to offset these rather large (for the boat) winches at around 30 degrees.
The winches sit proud of the deck by 60mm at the front and 10mm at the back (180mm diameter bases) with each rotated outwards by about 30 degrees as well. This would seem to match the average angle of the inbound jib-sheet to feed directly onto each winch.
The thing is the boat also has long deck tracks from immediately in front of each winch to well forward of the mast. The rear cars feed the winches direct from deck level, but because the front of the winch drums are around 90mm (60mm pad height plus c 30mm skirt) above deck level the sheets feed upwards at around 45 degrees when using the tracks.
My guess is that the deck tracks were added later, maybe for racing, and since free sheets onto winches, or via the deck cars both work fine, I am thinking to replace the pads exactly the same (but in High density PE this time).
Unfortunately I don't have a picture, and am not near the boat right now, but interested to know if there is something I might be missing about this set-up.
What thoughts if any?

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by mowerandy

...I am thinking to replace the pads exactly the same (but in High density PE this time)...

An exceedingly poor idea, as that material will act as a lubricant between the deck and the winch.

Regarding the rest, post photos.

[mowerandy]

Well, thanks - I think.
What would be more helpful would be a suggested alternative, and/or an explanation of why it actually matters when ones winches are locked down tight by 6 substantial bolts through precision drilled pads, deck, and fairly substantial load spreader pads below decks. Oh yeah, and the winches are always loaded from roughly the same direction too - never from the other side, so what exactly is going to make them slide around? Personally, I reckon I could use axle grease instead of Sikaflex to bed them, without noticing any functional difference
Attached (I hope) is a pic, where if you look closely you can see the portside jib-sheet winch whos pad hasn't yet collapsed. The originals are constructed from layered marine ply, polyester dipped I think, and have been there for 43 years by the looks (1974 build).

[mowerandy]

no pic - trying again

[mowerandy]

hopefully this uploads in the correct orientation

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by mowerandy

...Personally, I reckon I could use axle grease instead of Sikaflex to bed them, without noticing any functional difference...

Unsubscribe.

[mowerandy]

Dang nabbit - I give in - turn your head

[UNCIVILIZED]

Pics showing more details of how the various components are oriented towards one another are what would be of use. As to using UHMWPE for this, it's a plastic with rather poor strength, & compressive properties, along with a low coefficient of friction. And used in this application it would probably crack in a relatively short span of time. Try matweb.com for looking up the physical properties of anything you might care to use. But there are plenty of species of wood, & lots of types of composites which would excell in this application. Teak, Iroko, Ipe, & 101 others. But marine ply, not exterior, works too. Just seal it up well.

[roverhi]

High density plastics are slippery but the winches are held in place by the fasteners. They won't move about despite the plastic base. Don't agree with UNCIVILIZED's opinion that UHMWWPE suffers from compressibility or cracking issues. Have used it in a number of places including the mast step without an issue from cracking, compression or rot. Even teak suffers from rot and cracks easily if the underlying surface is not flat.

The original winch bases were angled to get a fair lead to the winches. If a flat winch position could result in overriding turns, you'll need to reinstall as the old ones were. If the lead to the winches is slightly downward the angled pad may not be necessary. Had a problem with overriding turns on the cabin top main halyard winch. Added a 1" flat teak pad under the winch which cured the overide problem. overrides are serious issues that you don't want to have to deal with. Really a heartbreaker when you have to cut a perfectly good halyard to cure an overide.

[Dave22q]

I guess I am missing your point. If your issue is to reorient your winches to use your existing lead tracks or leave them oriented for direct feed the answer seems obvious to me. Using the tracks gives you better tuning options. If the question is to match the reinstalled winch to the OK one or not, I would opt for the slight improvement of using the track on one side, but that's just me. Is it worth it to reorient the good winch? I seriously doubt it.

[Redpcx]

If you have never had an override, mount the winches at the same angle..
I have a boat built without winches. A previous owner re rigged it a bit. The two winches for the genoa are ok, and the jib stays up and furls.
But the main halyard winch is mounted with a perpendicular feed and is slightly prone to override. Light air, I raise the main without the winch, or winch the last few feet and tension it with the winch. Not a big deal.
When reefing, I really wish the winch was angled a little. Or using the bosuns chair.
If your winches work well, just copy the angles in your choice of material.