Sailing north

[Jeff Mack]

7 years ago I sailed a 46' seaward south from Stuart Florida to st John Virginia Islands. They call it the thorny path and it was. Now I have been hired to sail the boat back to Tampa Florida. Wondering if any one has a good route for going North to say, key west? Also with everything going on in Hati is it safe to sail past there or has been any pirate activity around there?
Thx
Jeff

[JD-MDR]

Jeff. Are you by any chance from Northridge CA
Jgdoyle123@gmail.com

[SailingHarmonie]

Who would hire a delivery skipper who doesn't know that this is almost all reaching and downwind in prevailing winds? Just watch the weather, point and go...

And avoid hurricanes.

Crazy...

[ka4wja]

Jeff,
I'm reserving my own "crazy" comment in the hopes that maybe you're just looking for some seasoned advice, 'cuz it IS hurricane season, and you're wondering if others have done this route at this time of year? (the answer is yes....except I've not gone all-the-way-to Tampa)

1) Assuming you're seriously asking....and actually have the ability to do this passage....and assuming you're sailing from St. John's, etc...I do have some good info/advice for you.

First, look at the charts! It's a fairly easy route to plan, my friend.
[you know, back-in-the-day we didn't have GPS, etc....we had a great steering compass, old paper charts, a decent wrist watch, and good binoculars....and no worries at all....and, sometimes we even had a working depth sounder (it was one of those old-school fluorescent-orange circular-display flashing-types....that "usually" worked), and sometimes a working speed log, too....but usually just estimating speed...]
I'm gonna' give you a route from memory here....'cuz my charts are not in front of me.

Remember, if you're going at this time-of-year (?) it can be a "thorny path" due to "tropical weather"!
That doesn't mean it cannot be done in summer ---- I've done it ---- others have done it --- in summertime....
But, I just want you to be aware of this other "thorny issue", yes?

As for Haitian piracy? ---- not something to worry about ---- these folks are usually picked-up by USCG or RBDF...
And goodness, please remember they are refugees looking for food/water/shelter, not bandits looking for "gold"....(this isn't Somalia nor Venezuela)
It's doubtful you'll run across them, but if you do see some, do a quick call to USCG (or Bahamas defense / RBDF) that would be a nice thing to do ---- they'll actually come and help these folks. (and, btw....the USCG is out there, flying as well as on-the-water)
(BTW, if you choose to try to help them yourself, use caution....NOT because they wish you any harm, no....but rather because in their desperation they can over-whelm you and your ability to help, and you could end-up with dozens of people in the water instead of you just trying to pass them some food/water....just saying, it's a tough call....the mariner's code of helping others is the Law of the Sea, but it's not a suicide clause....best to call USCG and observe from a distance, unless it looks like a life-or-death situation, then YOU send out a MayDay call [you DO have DSC calling all set-up, on this vessel, yes? 'cuz a ch. 16 call might not get you a response but DSC will....of course, even better if you had HF-DSC, but something tells me you don't?] and standby to offer assistance if directed to)


Oh, and back to "weather"....
Not knowing exactly when you're planning to sail this passage, but please note that summertime winds are light and they'll be behind you.
So, you'll likely be broad reaching (or running), deep on a starboard-tack with light apparent winds, so a whisker-pole to keep the genny filled (and/or a big asym) and not collapsing, etc. would be a recommend here.


2) As for routing specifics:

a ---- You may find provisioning in Cruz Bay to be pricey, but it is a good departure point....(so, if you're up-to flying with a cooler of dry-ice-packed meat for part of your checked-luggage, I suggest flying-in with some fresh-frozen foods already....then all you need to buy on St. Johns is some dry-goods and fresh produce)

b ---- I suggest leaving Cruz Bay in early morning (just after dawn), sailing north of St. Thomas (this will give you a couple hours of shake-down where you can easily turn and head-in to St. Thomas if necessary)....and then at/near 65*W, sail roughly WNW-erly, for about 500nm.
Assuming winds are cooperative, which of course ALL depends on your weather, time-of-year, etc. (but most probably will be), I'd sail a rhumbline-course towards a point approx 10nm south of Great Inagua Island.
As you seem rather skittish about sailing this wonderful down-wind milk-run, be advised this routing will not only keep you in usually favorable winds, but also favorable current (you should familiarize yourself with pilot charts, if you haven't already.....they are FREE these days, you know)....oh, and this also would put you about 15 - 20nm north of San Juan, before sunset on your first day, in case the vessel you're delivering isn't up-to this passage.

c --- This initial (~ 500nm) leg would keep you 10 - 15nm off of Puerto Platta and/or Luperon (in the DR)....and the closest to Haiti you'd get is about 30nm off Tortuga Island and/or about 35-40nm off Cape Haitian....

d --- Depending on time-of-year, a two-to-three-day weather forecast (from US NWS/NOAA, not a raw computer model) is pretty darn accurate....and as long as you leave with a good forecast (with no "tropical weather" expecting to develop in the next ~ 48 hours), there is no worry in this route...
Although, I like getting a daily [or twice-a-day] forecast when on passage, to adjust my route accordingly....but at least with this routing, by Day Three you'll be near the DR and Bahamas, and even if you have no long-range comms (HF-DSC-SSB) nor HF receiver (for receiving US NWS/NOAA Offshore WX broadcasts), you should be able to raise someone on VHF as you near Puerto Platta / Luperon, and/or when you approach Great Inagua.
AND....at least then, on Day Two and/or Day Three, you should be able to get at least a weather update to determine whether you should continue onto Florida....or head elsewhere (fyi, Mayagauna [less than a day's sail north] has decent/acceptable storm anchoring opportunities, if needed....and/or Luperon, DR is good too)

e --- This second leg (~ 230nm) sets-you-up to enter the Old Bahama Channel....which is a nice passage, but will require some navigation skills as you near the western end of this leg ---- to stay off the Great Bahama Bank (Mucaras Reef, to your north) and keep from hitting Cuba (to your south).
Depending on your wind/weather on Day 3 (and predicted for the next day), I'd stay pretty-much on the same course as your first two to three days / head-up a few degrees....and head for a point about mid-way between the southern end of the Great Bahama Bank (Mucaras Reef) and Versailies, Cuba....(this leg is about 230nm, depending where you "start" it from)
[There used-to-be a flashing Nav Light on the rocks off-of Cayo Cruz (?) Cuba, I think...not sure if it still exists....check your charts!!!]

f --- This third leg, you'll sail thru the narrowest part (the first ~ 100nm of this leg) of the Old Bahama Channel...this leg (dog-leg) of your passage is about 200nm or so overall....with the first 100nm being the only narrow part, and the final ~ 30 - 50nm or so you'll likely find your favorable current gone and you'll soon be met by the Gulf Stream.
FYI, fishing can be quite good on the final 50nm of this leg, along the Cay Sal Bank....(years ago, in calm weather, I've even anchored along the Bank and went spear fishing...my brother got a decent sized grouper!)
{fyi, the rest of your passage, from Cay Sal Bank - to - Tampa, will be against the current...}


~~~~~ Please note that this next part (g) is my "opinion" AND of course also varies with type-of-boat / motor-sailing-ability, etc.....others opinions may differ....so, no worries here.... ~~~~~~~~~~

g --- Crossing the Gulf Stream here isn't hard, but I'd not recommend any rhumbline courses here! 'Cuz you're gonna' be bucking a strong current (the Gulf Stream)...
Unless you feel the need to stop in Key West, I'd recommend simply sailing westerly a bit (staying north of 23.4* to 23.5*N), and then cross the Stream south-to-north as you get west of 82*W....and be prepared to be pushed well easterly by the Stream, especially in the middle few dozen miles of your crossing it....so, crab-walking is fine here...
{Please note that the US NWS/NOAA broadcasts Gulf Stream info on their VHF Weather Radio stations all along Florida's coast....so, tune it and listen....you can usually receive Key West (WX ch. 2) and/or Marathon (WX ch. 5), and/or Miami (WX ch. 1) and/or Princeton (WX ch. 4) from way south / along the Cay Sal Bank)...}
Chances are from the western end of Old Bahama Channel (near Cay Sal Bank), getting across the Stream and then be west of Key West and/or west of Marquesas Keys, will be ~ 150nm - 200nm of sailing....

~~~~~~~~~~~~

h --- Once you get north of the Stream, and hopefully west of Marquesas Keys, you can pick your point to head north and sail rhumbline course the final ~ 175 - 200nm, to Tampa.
[please note this last leg, from Keys to Tampa, I've never sailed....but many have sailed this without issue....and, while historically you could find a slight northerly setting current close-in-to-shore, most will sail off a bit (to avoid shoals) and find a slight southerly setting current....just an fyi...]



3) Jeff, as others have mentioned, if you have-to ask these pretty basic questions.....it does set-off a concern that maybe you're not ready for this ~ 1300nm - 1400nm coastal / near-offshore passage?

---- If you haven't looked at the pilot charts for this passage, please do so...

---- If you haven't looked at the charts for this passage, then I question your actual ability to do this..(sorry, not trying to be rude, just being honest)

---- Please be sure to get a good (US NWS/NOAA) Offshore Weather forecast before you depart....

---- And be sure to look at a Gulf Stream forecast as well, before you depart St. Johns, VI (so you'll have some rough idea of the Stream)...



4) BTW, you didn't ask....but best to use CBP website to file your vessel and crew info / plan....(and, call USCG the day before your departure is also not a bad idea)
This is because you'll be sailing along Cuba....and, I'm assuming you're a US Citizen and sailing a US-flagged vessel?
So, this way "they" (our Uncle Sam) know you're there and know who you are, etc....less chance of a boarding "request" at night in a swell, etc.
(of course, the USCG can still come on-board at any time, it's not a "request"....if you've gone out-of-your-way to let 'em know ahead of time, less likely they'll want to bother you...)



I really hope this helps?
Fair winds.
John


P.S. I'm usually answering marine "radio" / "communications" questions.....just came upon your post by accident.

[Jeff Mack]

Hi John
Thank you for the reply. The reason for two post is I was still learning how to post things and apparently I thought the first one never posted. I can appreciate your concern but I did captain the same boat down there and figured out from the experience that coming back would be much nicer. I guess i am confused how asking if anyone had a preferred route is a basic question? Also yes the internet is full of answers I have literally 30 plus charts multiple chart plotters have chatted with many captians and everyone seems to have a little different route or stops they might suggest. I have sailed for years and yes,
, i know this is a milk run lol! I guess asking the question, because I have not sailed the Caribbean for 7 years made people on this forum concerned. I was merely getting some opinions for routes. Lol. Not to start a panic that some rookie that sailed a sunfish once is attempting a 1500 NM trip. Which clearly stated in my question i have made before, the hard direction. Anyway I do appreciate your detailed response and don't think you were being rude, just maybe truly concerned for me. I will refer to your notes as I chart my course. Time of year is a toss up. Currently I plan on leaving January to avoid hurricane season. The gulf steam will be stronger yes I know but this boat has twin 75 hp yanmars that might be put into action when the time comes. My airdaft is 62', 7 mile bridge in marathon is 65' . So a short cut will probably be in the route there. Once again, John Thank you for the wealth of info you provided.
Cheers
Jeff

[ka4wja]

Jeff,
You're welcome.

BTW, when you wrote you were hired to sail the boat back from USVI to Tampa, I interpreted this as a "delivery", not a pleasure cruise.
So, I gave you a delivery routing.


If you wish to take your time and make a "cruise" out of this, then there are a whole plethora of places to consider and even different routing!

I mean, I'd forget most of the first leg of my earlier advice about heading north of St. Thomas....
Rather, stop in Culebra and Vieques (actually Culebrita and Isla Luis Pena....and the eastern end of Vieques are some great places) and head along the southern coast of PR...stop along the way if you desire, etc...
Then when you have good weather, head across the Mona Passage (to the NW)....and then head WNW along a nice route north of the DR (Puerto Plata used-to-be a nice place?)....
Then, follow the routing I wrote about last night...but, I'd say stop-in at Great Inagua, or even better take a minor diversion and stop at Ragged Island....(Ragged Island chain is a wonderful, off-the-beaten-path part of the Bahamas out-islands....and, if you're not doing a delivery, I'd recommend both Great Inagua and Ragged as nice places to visit)

FYI, unless you have some reason to stop in Marathon, it's the wrong direction from this route to Tampa...but, I assume you understand that?


Now, as for January....the winds will be stronger, and more easterly and north-easterly...
And, as you get into the Old Bahama Channel you can get some influence of continental Lows and Fronts as they move off (east and southeast) from Florida....
As well as once you get to the Florida Straits / the Keys, and up to Tampa....you will have continental weather effecting your winds....
And again, you really should take a quick look at the pilot charts....that's what they are for...(but, be aware that you should take note of the caveats here in blue, that are just lumped into the monthly stats in a pilot chart, and you should keep a keener-eye on the continental weather as you get nearer to Florida / closer to Tropic of Cancer)


I hope this helps?
Fair winds.
John

[Jeff Mack]

Thanks again John
All great stuff! I have now heard multiple times to sail Into great inagua and also explore the ragged islands as well. Last time I went from exuma to aklins to the turks then ocean world in Dominica then off to Puerto Rico. So I think this time I will go from Puerto Rico all the way to Inagua. Then plunk around the Bahamas for a while. The boat has a vertical retracting keel which allows me to have a very shallow draft when needed (30"). So perfect for saiing in the Bahamas. I am told Great Inagua is a nice place to check in and stay for awhile

Cheers
Jeff

[Jeff Mack]

Thank you sailing Harmonie, for your wonderful advice! And knowledge. I will be sure to inform the owner of the boat of my LACK OF EXPERIENCE! As you have suggested! I am sure he will get a kick out of that!
Cheers lad!