2010 Caribbean 1500 Rally

[YOGAO]

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

I am curious why you chose Oregon Inlet. Was it one of your bailout points?

Given the seas, were any of the crew seasick? I would like to hear more from you and others in the rally.

Isn't that the only inlet north of Cape Hatteras?

Fair Winds,
Mike

[jaysandy]

we could not wait on the 1 week delay with other commitments coming up... We thought also that the delay would grind down the fleet ... some diverting, some retiring... some just doing it on their own later .. what is Nancy Ellen a 34 ft sloop doing out there 4 days or more behind the flotilla... I pray fo Laura and wonder about the grit that it must take to stay at at sea until daylight before going into that cut and if they had good Bahamas charts and plotter info

[Khagan1227]

Simply awful news.

I hope the other three crew are doing well, I haven't seen an update on their conditions.

[bcalfee]

Maybe my comments are harsh for C1500... I am not disappointed that they sent us out in that weather, we knew what the forecast meant and we went anyway. And I didn't expect any kind of support or help from them when we almost lost our boat trying to escape the conditions. I am a little surprised that their response to our phone call was to post us as "withdrawn", rather than letting the rest of the fleet know our condition.

Mostly my comments were posted to try to give readers a sense of what Rule 62 was up against from a boat that had been in the same predicament... and had survived.

Someone asked for more details about our condition. The wind was not a problem. We were doing hull speed with a 30% jib out. The problem was the sea state. There was a swell from the NE that was about 10', which is not big, but it was short and steep... Maybe a 5 second period. And there was the wind chop from the NW which as about the same size and period. I am guessing that the steepness was related to the shallow water or some current. Whatever it was it made the boat roll and jerk. All but one of use was nausious when we were below. With the boat rocking and snapping, it was hard to sleep and impossible to prepare food. We were living off of crackers and powerbars. My daughter was throwing up anything that she ate or drank and I was worried about dehydration.

I knew the risks of Oregon Inlet... but I knew that we might see bigger seas when we reached Diamond shoals and Cape Hatteras... And I was worried about what state we would be in when we reached that area... in the dark. As we approached the inlet we tried to raise Coast Guard or locals to let us know the condition of the inlet, and no one was listening to the radio. It was the middle of the day, the current, wind and waves were with us... I still think it was the right decision, given the options we had. It was the only time in my life that I have called for my crew to put on Type 1 PFDs.

I laud my crew for being tough and staying cool. I laud our boat, a 1983 Hallberg Rassy for protecting us. I am really glad that we had been thorough in our preparations: screwing down floor boards, securing everything, and not having anything on deck, etc. And I laud the SSCA for their support of us since we arrived. Hope this helps.

BTW, Nancy Ellen took the intra Coastal Waterway to Beaufort (good decision) and waited for appropriate conditions to start their passage. Wish I had been that smart...

[Chattcatdaddy]

Given a similar situation what would be your strategy in your boat and normal crew situation with bad sea conditions, rage, and also add darkness to that as well? Heaveto and wait it out, divert to another port? Any ideas?

[YOGAO]

We may never know what the exact conditions were onboard Rule 62, or how fatigue was affecting the decision-making process, if they had a critical need to get into a harbour, if they had any charts for the Bahamas, etc.

If I had charts, I would have probably continued beyond the Abacos and left Egg Island to port heading for Spanish Wells roughly another 60 - 65nm from Lynyard Cay, or perhaps gone on to Nassau, about 80 - 85nm from Lynyard.

I might have hove-to if I had some weather info indicating a rapid calming to the conditions, but a rage can persist for a while after it calms down, so perhaps not the best call.

Fair Winds,
Mike

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Chattcatdaddy

Given a similar situation what would be your strategy in your boat and normal crew situation with bad sea conditions, rage, and also add darkness to that as well? Heaveto and wait it out, divert to another port? Any ideas?

At the location of the loss on the Bahamas, I would have kept going south 33nms to a 17 mile wide opening with 2,000 m deep water. Its called Northeast Prividence Channel. 025 42 N 077 07 W

Then I would have waited/anchored near Cross Harbour 025 58 N 077 21 W

Thats without knowing the area. My chart of Cross Harbour is useless, but could get into the lee without trouble.

[pierre0121]

When Steve Black described the planned weather in Hampton, VA, my wife and I assessed what the options would be to bail out of the Carib 1500 if something went wrong. The natural exit is Bermuda although the strong low would have dissuaded most boats to consider this option (one went there safely). The other options were to come back to the US and crossing the Gulf Stream again (a boat did it and went into the St Johns river). The Abacos did not look as a good option because the predicted waves were big, going south by Thursday/Friday and could create a rage on the entrances (we had the benefit of having been to the Abacos a few times). North Providence channel seemed feasible with landing into Nassau, following the deeper cruise ship route (it would have been my preferred option). Last option before the BVIs would have been Porto Rico (a boat went there too). We finally decided as double handers that the planned conditions would be too rough for us and we aborted our planned cruise in Hampton.

[Joli]

This is just awful and I guess the only reason to comment is so others might learn.

As uncomfortable as it may have been out on the water the real danger is always closing with the shoreline. There will be plenty of should have, would have scenerios posted but the harsh reality is they took a serious gamble by closing and lost.

I can't imagine the anguish of all involved and wish them gods blessings.

Joli

[PamlicoTraveler]

Originally Posted by bcalfee

All but one of use was nausious when we were below. With the boat rocking and snapping, it was hard to sleep and impossible to prepare food. We were living off of crackers and powerbars. My daughter was throwing up anything that she ate or drank and I was worried about dehydration.

I knew the risks of Oregon Inlet... but I knew that we might see bigger seas when we reached Diamond shoals and Cape Hatteras... And I was worried about what state we would be in when we reached that area... in the dark. ...

Thanks for the update. It sounds like you made the right decision as it turned out. Seasickness is a tough one because it's not just misery for the one having it, it's the loss of a crew member and stresses the planned watch schedules. And dehydration would eventually be a concern. And the Gulf Stream is right at Hatteras these days, so who knows what might have happened if you had a problem there.

I am sympathetic to Steve Black and the Carib 1500. It's a little bit like a school superintendent having to make a decision when there is some snow on a road somewhere and yet school has been out for a week and the parents are eager for school to start. If a bus slides off the road their decision will be questioned because there was snow on the road. The pressure of schedules at the 1500 and people wanting to start probably forces a risk that the decision can be second-guessed. And it can't be made risk-free - we all know that.

I suspect in your case they listed you as withdrawn because you were inland. They may have had some very problematic issues and concerns on their hands at the time. Anyway, you succeeded in arriving safely! Good work.

PS The Sailcraft guys are great. You are in good hands with Alan and crew.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

Anyway, you succeeded in arriving safely! Good work.
PS The Sailcraft guys are great. You are in good hands with Alan and crew.

I second that emotion.... and the opinion of Alan and the Sailcraft B/yard

[speciald@ocens.]

Ultimately it is the captain who decides when to go or not go. I had consern at the start that some boats left Hampton that had no business being out there in the projected weather. We stayed inside the Stream to Frying Pan Shoals to avoid some of the forcasted seas. Turns out that it wasn't needed but I felt that saftey of the boat and crew waranted that path. In a passage of this length different boats will allways be sailing in different weather because of boat speed. Commander's provided weather forcasts for both faster and slower boats as the rally progressed and in my opinion allways gave projections on the high side of reality. We never saw the projected sea heights or wind speeds. My only problem with the 1500 management is that they allowed some boats to register that maybe shouldn't have gone on the rally but I am unaware of the skippers of those boats level of experience. For example there were two Gemini 105s, a Catalina 34, a Saga 43, an OutIsland 41, a Sabre 40, a Caliber 33, and other smaller and slower boats. Some of these boats are ocean capable but would not provide comfortable rides for the crew and these boats would trail behind the fleet by days. As of this Am more than 8 boats are still making way toward Tortola.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by speciald@ocens.

Ultimately it is the captain who decides when to go or not go. I had consern at the start that some boats left Hampton that had no business being out there in the projected weather. We stayed inside the Stream to Frying Pan Shoals to avoid some of the forcasted seas. Turns out that it wasn't needed but I felt that saftey of the boat and crew waranted that path. In a passage of this length different boats will allways be sailing in different weather because of boat speed. Commander's provided weather forcasts for both faster and slower boats as the rally progressed and in my opinion allways gave projections on the high side of reality. We never saw the projected sea heights or wind speeds. My only problem with the 1500 management is that they allowed some boats to register that maybe shouldn't have gone on the rally but I am unaware of the skippers of those boats level of experience. For example there were two Gemini 105s, a Catalina 34, a Saga 43, an OutIsland 41, a Sabre 40, a Caliber 33, and other smaller and slower boats. Some of these boats are ocean capable but would not provide comfortable rides for the crew and these boats would trail behind the fleet by days. As of this Am more than 8 boats are still making way toward Tortola.

Sounds a lot like the ARC Rally's to me.... start in a group... finish up spread out over days and weeks... I assume its another pay to join commercial venture with the 'Rich Boats' dominating the finish line and 'Honors..?'
But as you rightly say... its down to the skippers who presumably know their boats... most likely a lot of smaller less able vessels join these events under the misconception of greater security and safety...
Non existant in reality once the **** hits the fan.
Now the 'Jester Challenge'.... thats the real deal...

[cfarrar]

I've never done the 1500, but in reading about past events it seems common that the larger boats have a better ride, escaping through a weather window while the tail-end of the fleet sometimes get caught by the next low pressure system. On the other hand, I notice that the Saga 43 finished only a half day behind the Taswell 58. Moreover, it was not the smallest boats that diverted this year. It would be nice to hear from some of those crews on their arrival to Tortola.

[PamlicoTraveler]

There is some added security in having a transponder track progress and SSB sign-ins twice a day. Obviously, soon after you leave shore you are out of sight of other boats and probably many miles away from anyone else. Still, you have someone who is aware that you are out there and is watching the weather and communicating to you.

Keep in mind, the 1500 costs $1,000. For that amount of money you get a place to meet, briefings, safety checks, the transponder, and a lot of other perks. I've never done it - did the Bermuda Cup one year and loved it - but it seems like a deal to me.