Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[sailstoo]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Perhaps, it's God's fault will.

Evidently, the Sunderlands are deeply religious people. They describe themselves as born-again Christians, and her dad said in an interview with the Los Angeles Times just before Abby was getting ready to leave on this big trip: "We have prepared her. She has prepared herself. But in the end, it's not really in her hands. It's not really in our hands. It's in the Lord's hands" And Abby basically said to reporters several times, "you know, I could not have gotten this far if God hadn't wanted me to do this.'
So they feel that there's been some sort of divine guidance in all of this.

Maybe God gave her two of the most irresponsible parents since Baloon Boy for a reason but I doubt it. These publicity hounds should foot the bill for this as well as have their parental competency challenged by the state.

[Christian Van H]

I see you have it all figured out. Now that I know that her boat is impervious to the Oceans, I have one last question, and I'm dead serious; If she had been killed during the storm and dismasting, what would you have posted? I'm hoping for something better than the "At least she died doing what she loved" thing...

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Kanani

Until you've been there or have all the facts, it is unfair to be critical.

I disagree. I don't have to become a junkie to tell you that heroin is dangerous. The fact that I've never tried it doesn't invalidate my conclusion.

I've got a few more miles under my keel--"keels" might be more accurate--than Christian Van H, but like him I know better than to cruise certain waters during storm seasons.

The accusation that the members of this forum are "armchair sailors" is not only disingenuous, it's flat out wrong. I'm constantly impressed by the depth of experience our members represent, not to mention the wisdom that often finds its way into these threads.

There is no rational defense of someone sailing an Open 40 below latitude 40 South this time of year. Period. I don't care if that's being said about the world's greatest sailor or some kid who hasn't yet completed high school. It's the wrong boat attempting the wrong stunt at the wrong time.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by sailstoo

Maybe God gave her two of the most irresponsible parents since Baloon Boy for a reason but I doubt it. These publicity hounds should foot the bill for this as well as have their parental competency challenged by the state.

Let me guess.....another "Arm-chair sailor"...

You could probably find a lot of irresponsible parents on a motocross forum. That is an unfair comment at best. These parents have worked tirelessly to be sure that this went off without a hitch. However, as in most extreme sports (which is what this is), stuff breaks.

However, an argument for financial responsibility could be made IMO. That's a battle as old as sailing itself. As it becomes more extreme, the battle will heat up.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by Bash

I disagree. I don't have to become a junkie to tell you that heroin is dangerous. The fact that I've never tried it (HMMMMMM!!!!) doesn't invalidate my conclusion.



.

I've only commented on the critical pundits. The more experienced sailors know better tan to 2nd guess another sailor. It becomes very obvious.....very fast, who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't.....

There is no rational defense of someone sailing an Open 40 below latitude 40 South this time of year. Period. I don't care if that's being said about the world's greatest sailor or some kid who hasn't yet completed high school. It's the wrong boat attempting the wrong stunt at the wrong time.

That's your inexperienced opinion.....NOT fact.....

My experienced opinion is that I don't have enough information to judge her position at that particular time. I wasn't there and I didn't have the information that she had.

Now, if you are talking about a typical cruising yacht with a typical cruising skipper...... I would agree. There is nothing "Typical" about this young lady or her vessel.

[Hirophant]

Originally Posted by sarafina

The reason there wasn't a ship with in 40 hours is because no one with half a brain would be there to begin with...

I wonder if that's all that unusual really, most of the shipping routes are in the northern part of the Indian Ocean, and as for fishing I get the impression the area is not what it was.

because I am guessing that typically the usual s&r doesn't involve chartering a commercial airliner to see if her boat is still above water..

This bit is puzzling me, doesn't she have a handheld sat phone that would work independently of the shipboard gear which failed? I recall Jessica had two handhelds, one permanently stowed in her grab bag in case she had to abandon ship.

[TaoJones]

The explanation for why there has been no further sat phone contact since one hour before the dismasting will have to come out after her rescue. I'm sure that she would have called her parents immediately after activating the two EPIRBs if she still had that option.

[sarafina]

one of the reports said something about the mast coming down and taking out all her communication antennas. Do sat phones need an aux antenna in remote areas?

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Kanani

I'm not sure where you think all the "Fame & Fortune" comes from. I am personal friends with Brian Caldwell, he held the record for youngest solo for awhile. He's doing what he loves but not much fortune there. Donald Kang is a national hero in Korea........1st Korean solo.....we are very close friends. As sailed with both of these young man across the Indian Ocean and around So Africa. Not a lot of fame and/or fortune.

There may be books written but often times they cost more to publish than they sell.

I can second that about the fame & fortune. I'm friend and advisor to the first man of color to race solo RTW, and there is/was a bit of fame (the usual 15 minutes) but certainly no fortune. Unless you are French and won the Vendee, forget it. It a fantasy.

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Kanani

I'm not sure where you think all the "Fame & Fortune" comes from. I am personal friends with Brian Caldwell, he held the record for youngest solo for awhile. He's doing what he loves but not much fortune there. Donald Kang is a national hero in Korea........1st Korean solo.....we are very close friends. As sailed with both of these young man across the Indian Ocean and around So Africa. Not a lot of fame and/or fortune.

There may be books written but often times they cost more to publish than they sell.

I believe there is a fundamental difference between people like Brian Caldwell and people who set out to sail RTW solo, nonstop, and unassisted. Maybe part of this difference is reflected in fame and fortune. Caldwell's voyage wasn't exactly a leisurely cruising type circumnavigation, but it was closer to that than what Abby was attempting. Many unknown and unrecognized solo sailors have completed multi-year cruising type circumnavigations simply because it was fun.

Sorry, I never heard of Donald Kang - I guess that proves your point.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Kanani

Abby is not in danger at the moment. .

Good morning folks!
Sun has just risen here and has been up for a short time where Abby is.

Current weather for her area shows 40 to 45 knots.

Like it seems I have been saying for more than 3 years these ever yonger people should not be going to sea on this inane and stupid fame seaking missions. I am not interested in any of these as individual people and how any one of thse kids may be better or worse that the other.

So as a general statement I can tell you without doubt that if I was where she is I would not be safe. YOU would not be safe either. So we must take today as a very difficult day for anyone let alone someone who should not be out there as she doesn't have the skills or maturity to handle it.

Not only is she in danger but this fishing boat is too. at 45 knots wind they might normally be 'jogging' 45 degrees into the waves, but here they have decided to go full steam with huge quartering waves in a boat not designed for stability.

It may be a good boat for it, Chilean Sea Base poachers, someone said? Its shoud be fast! But I have found that criminals don't look after their equipment very well, nor are they types of people that as crew I would like to rely on in heavy weather.

Abby is in danger from many things as we all know, not withstanding most of us have not sailed the Southern Ocean in winter (or at all).

Its interesting to note Gord's screw up in the dates of birth, which came from a screw up of mine on their ages, no its not the screw ups that are interesting, its that the next girl to set off needs to be 15 to 'break' the 'record'. The person after that needs to be 14.

Now we dont know the names yet of the 15 and 14 year old but lets name them X and Y. In this situation would they be considered to be in danger? 45 knots and a disabled boat 2,000nms from land and a clapped out fishing boat crewed by crooks 12 hours away?

Remove "Abby" "Jessica" and any other name and put in 16, 15, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11.... tell me where to stop.... 10, 9, 8..... still going?....

Lets hope the boat gets there in daylight and the crew does the transfer safely

By the way, I still can't believe how remote it is when there is no ships within a 40 hour run. Thats one lonely sea!


Mark

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by Randy

I'm also in the camp of at least partial reimbursement for the rescue operation. The Sunderland family stands to make out well financially from this venture even without Abby completing the circumnavigation. The purpose of pushing the schedule was for the fame & fortune of youngest solo circumnavigation, it seems to me thather 'lifelong dream' of 3 years would still have been satisfied had the family waited for the southern summer and the advantage of pushing the schedule was solely the age issue.
They rolled the dice and it didn't work out. I wish the whole family well but that doesn't mean other's should foot the bill when a big part of the venture was financial in nature.

At least one other sees my point

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I'm friend and advisor to the first man of color to race solo RTW, and there is/was a bit of fame (the usual 15 minutes) but certainly no fortune.

Neal Petersen is an inspiration in many ways. He did write a book about it too, and it was quite good. Must be cool to know him...

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Doodles

What the hell is that suppose to mean??? Talk about idiotic posts! Besides, Kanani has 800+ posts to your 1,700+ ... so? This is getting ridiculous!

Somebody please explain sarcasm to Mr Doodles here...this may be the funiest thing I've read in a while...

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Hirophant

This bit is puzzling me, doesn't she have a handheld sat phone that would work independently of the shipboard gear which failed? .

We have a hand held sat phone which is pretty damn sensational! But it doesnt have coverage down there. I don't know what system she may have aboard so can't check on the net to see how good the coverage is. However, if one can get a voice call out with a mast high antenna, then you would think that dismasted the little antenna could still get an SMS message out. Text messages get through when theres very little reception. By the way, sat phones like mine have an inbuilt GPS so the L&L can be SMS'ed!

For extreme environments where dismasting must be considered a 'normal' hazard one would think there would be separate antennas on the pushpit as well as the mast.

(Further I would have a spare spar of some sort lashed to the deck to be used as a jury rig, so she could sail herself out of the situation, but this is about a age 'record' dependant on speed, nothing to do with achieving it in a seaman-like manner.)


Mark