Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[osirissail]

Surefire answer? None!. The last time you had a surefire answer was when you were in the womb and the answer was birth. After that variables start piling on to you in every increasing volume and you can only attempt to reduce them to a manageable level. But still there are more coming at you and that is where your karma/luck can help or hurt you. Finally as you near your end a "sure-fire answer" again appears - death.
- - In Abby's case - until we get the detailed story from her - it is obvious that too many variables were piled onto her than she could deal with. Some might have been self-generated and others were thrown at her by Mother Nature. Boat choice, time restrictions (age); equipment choices; advice from her "handlers; all were being dumped upon her. Whether her 16 years of life experience versus some guy/gal with 30-40-50 years of experience could have done anything else - is pure speculation. Isabelle Autissier - a very experienced racing sailor never made it though the southern ocean, twice.
- - So there is no "sure-fire answer".

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Eleebana

I thought I'd be trailing a drogue to stop the boat from gaining too much speed while the helm was not manned. Slomotion seems to have been unlucky with a drogue previously. What's the (surefire)answer then?

I too would like to hear more experienced views on this, because I have been told by several people that my experience was not that unusual and in fact, we were lucky that the steering gear (cable I assume) simply slipped instead of having the rudder bent or broken. I have been told that this sometimes happens with both drogues and parachutes.

But I don't know because after my one and only drogue experience (described above) I have never owned or deployed a drogue, and I have never wanted to.

I have no idea what type/brand drogue the owner/skipper was using (this was about 1978). He was Maine born and raised and had been sailing all his life. He claimed to have used the drogue several times in similar and worse conditions with no problems. It was deployed off a bridle type rig at the stern and it indeed seemed to work well for a while. The rocking and rolling was substantially reduced and the other crew had just gone below to make coffee when the boat did a major WTF. The skipper's theory was that the angle of the back side of the wave was sufficiently steep to put most of the boat's weight on the rudder and coupled with the drag from the drogue and the power of the water passing from astern, something had to give. It was a 36' Morgan - don't know the model, but by reputation it was a strong boat.

[barnakiel]

Hello !!!!!! Wake up !!!!!!!! Towing a drogue in an Open Class boat?

Are they not designed to sail fast off the wind?

I believe this type of boat is meant to sail very fast of the wind in a storm - slowing down poops them and waves start breaking over the hull bringing havoc, breaking equipment and broaching the boat. This is, anyway, what seems to have happened.

I might be wrong, but I think all pros try to do just the opposite - sail them fast fast fast and keep the boat the plane. There is the tool, there is the proper (and improper) way of using it. Sometimes you will think you know a better way until you break the tool. At times, you also hurt yourself in the process.

b.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Surefire answer? None!. The last time you had a surefire answer was when you were in the womb and the answer was birth. After that variables start piling on to you in every increasing volume and you can only attempt to reduce them to a manageable level. But still there are more coming at you and that is where your karma/luck can help or hurt you. Finally as you near your end a "sure-fire answer" again appears - death.
- - In Abby's case - until we get the detailed story from her - it is obvious that too many variables were piled onto her than she could deal with. Some might have been self-generated and others were thrown at her by Mother Nature. Boat choice, time restrictions (age); equipment choices; advice from her "handlers; all were being dumped upon her. Whether her 16 years of life experience versus some guy/gal with 30-40-50 years of experience could have done anything else - is pure speculation. Isabelle Autissier - a very experienced racing sailor never made it though the southern ocean, twice.
- - So there is no "sure-fire answer".

Correction, she finished the 90/91 BOC. The next two she didn't.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Hey Bashy I thought a knockdown was mast in the water, as in the top of the mast. That can't happen with wind alone so a broach etc ain't nor can it be, a knockdown.

That's always been my understanding: a knockdown is when the spreaders or the masthead touch the water.

Found this definition on Wikipedia's Glossary of nautical terms: Knockdown The condition of a sailboat being pushed abruptly to horizontal, with the mast parallel to the water surface.

(Apologies for the diversion to those of you still arguing about.... what's her name?)

[FrankZ]

I do think everyone involved knows our policy on "be nice".

Since this is becoming a sniping session it is closed.