Covidiot Cruisers in the Solomon Islands

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

So shouldn’t this whole topic have been nuked based on the title?

There was nothing in the title that was rude towards a member of CF.

[Simon.Sails]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Are you arguing that the local laws are invalid and to be ignored?
If so, on what basis do you make this argument?

This is getting ridiculous.... Are you arguing all people are green? IF SO, on what basis are you making that argument? (You're asking me to defend an argument I very obviously did not make.) Please have the courtesy to not deliberately misrepresent my clearly stated opinion.

Again, my take is they're NOT covidiots (title) as they did not risk infecting others through their reckless behaviour. Something which, as apparently needs reminding, happens all over the world thousands of times on a daily basis.

They did, however, break local laws and regulations. That's obviously bad, but not something I can get outraged about, especially as they seemed to have had a good reason to do. Even if that's not the case, they do not in any way deserve to be insulted by the OP I think. Personally I follow local (wherever I am) laws to the letter, that's all I said.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Simon.Sails

This is getting ridiculous.... Are you arguing all people are green? IF SO, on what basis are you making that argument? (You're asking me to defend an argument I very obviously did not make.) Please have the courtesy to not deliberately misrepresent my clearly stated opinion.

Again, my take is they're NOT covidiots (title) as they did not risk infecting others through their reckless behaviour. Something which, as apparently needs reminding, happens all over the world thousands of times on a daily basis.

They did, however, break local laws and regulations. That's obviously bad, but not something I can get outraged about, especially as they seemed to have had a good reason to do. Even if that's not the case, they do not in any way deserve to be insulted by the OP I think. Personally I follow local (wherever I am) laws to the letter, that's all I said.

Thank you.

[AKA-None]

I think the covidiot in the title was a bit over the top as we really are talking about respecting the laws of the place we go and how we obey or not.
Doesn’t matter if we agree as they aren’t our laws.
If the law said no white boats then that’s the rule even if we don’t agree

I’m not sure why we keep having this particular discussion.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I think you misread my quote, for I clearly said that it is their country and their rules. I personally think that it was dumb for these two boats to ignore the rules especially given that many countries have reasonable ways to allow for entry.

What is creepy and Orwellian is asking people to spy on each other like the Stasi did. In the '30 and 40's the National Socialists had a person on each street known as the Blockleiter who's job was to do just that. In addition to spying, they were to spread propaganda, encourage people to submit to state policies, and other such "socially acceptable" things. The communist Chinese are transitioning to an entire society based upon social credit using such tactics.

The Australians are quite concerned about this Wuhan virus, yet they have put in place very reasonable rules to allow yachts to enter. They did this without the need to ask people to spy on each other.

You may not be aware of it but you freedom loving government acutely has had the same or very similar policies in place for decades.
The difference they were looking for drugs and human trafficking. Now they have added terrorist to the list as well.

[Fore and Aft]

AKA-None I think we are just having a difference of cultures. The word idiot is a well accepted term with Australians. Just click on that link below and you can see even our government uses it in their advertising slogans. The link below that is an even worse swear word and I see that bumper sticker everywhere I go.
What has got me beat with all these rule benders how come we do not hear about them having an "emergency" and calling into Somalia or Yemen" Or getting lost and ending up on the southern shores of Iran?

Cheers

TAC campaign targets Bloody Idiots who Drink Drive this September - TAC - Transport Accident Commission
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...0daecb9ea8644a

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Adelie, so far no emergency situation has been mentioned. Being low on (not out of) water is hardly an emergency.

Jim

I don’t know I think being short of water could be anywhere from inconvenient to a concern even an emergency.

Which could result in a diversion. Fair enough.

I think a boat or skipper believing this situation was more than an inconvenience should call the emergency ahead of deciding to ignore the rules or laws of whichever country or territory they were passing.

It’s a long time since I passed through the general area. I’ve forgotten the acronym used locally. The Aussies I think run a system very similar to AMVER which if contacted would probably have been able to assist in some way.

Instead I suspect this was an arrogant response from a inconsiderate westerner in a cruising yacht.
The excuse came after the fact.
He might be a good guy in the yacht club bar. Even a friend of some cruisers.

The title is fairly mild.

Turns out a friend of mine who I thought was a good guy was just as much of an inconsiderate jerk. He ignored local requests and regulation and travelled to a remote First Nation community. For his own convenience early on in this situation.
It caused a great deal of offence. I was shocked, I thought I knew him better.
Turns out some people take this seriously and some people don’t.

These people obviously didn’t, fortunately all they have done is cause offence.
If they had been in contact with this bug, they might have done much worse.

The effects of contact have only just passed from living memory in many First Nations communities.
People in some of these communities today heard it first hand from thier elders when they were young.

Only yesterday I read about a young Scottish lad who circumvented the IOM rules using a jet ski.
So they are not the only ones.

The same term could easily apply.

[Jim Cate]

I don’t know I think being short of water could be anywhere from inconvenient to a concern even an emergency.

Really? So dire that they could not carry on the additional few miles to Honiara to make a proper entry?

Does not meet my definition of a situation where ignoring protocol is justified.

Jim

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Really? So dire that they could not carry on the additional few miles to Honiara to make a proper entry?

Does not meet my definition of a situation where ignoring protocol is justified.

Jim

What seems to be forgotten by most posters is that they were actually two boats holed up together for several days a few hours sail from Honiara. Were they both in such "dire circumstances" that neither boat could sail the 30 miles to Honiara - or even the 10 miles of so to get into VHF range?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by StuM

What seems to be forgotten by most posters is that they were actually two boats holed up together for several days a few hours sail from Honiara. Were they both in such "dire circumstances" that neither boat could sail the 30 miles to Honiara - or even the 10 miles of so to get into VHF range?

Or even just assist each other... it is beyond belief they could both have exactly the same "emergency".

[Tetepare]

Lots of armchair quarterbacking here....eight pages!


Why didn't they stop at Vila? Tikopia? I dunno, maybe they did. From Fiji, a direct course would take them either north or south of San Christobal; if they went north of San Christobal, why didn't they stop at Ulawa? On the other hand, if they went south, the first decent stop is indeed Aola Bay on Guadalcanal.



I don't know, and it's not right for me to suggest what they did or did not do.


Why didn't they contact SIG on SSB, VHF, or email? And that's where it gets funny.


Anyone every actually try to contact SIG? Good luck.


It's a cultural thing. It's good, it's not bad, it's perspective of culture.


Roy was supposed to pick me up at 8am, he showed up at 3pm. Harry was supposed to meet me at 6pm so I could get my stuff he was storing until the flight the next morning, Harry was a no-show; I had to rely on coconut wireless to find him at his kid's soccer game.



Most of the emails and phone numbers published are wrong (not that it really matters.) While clearing into LAX with SI licensed goods, US Customs tried to verify my story by calling the office of record in Honiara....when I told them the office burned down three years prior and hadn't been replaced they looked at me like I was the biggest idiot unable to craft a decent story.


Go ahead. Try it. Send an email. Contact with SSB. Call by phone. Good luck.


If Jimmy is supposed to man the VHF, and Jimmy decides to go spend a week with his family on Choisul, nobody gets put in his place. Absurd by western standards, but typical in Solomons (and Pohnpei, and Tarawa and....)


Solomons is a here-and-now, face-to-face place. I get there, go visit a colleague in his office. Did you get my email? It's either "yeah, I forgot to reply" or "I haven't checked email in two weeks."



It happens to researchers requesting permits all the time. No response. They ask me how I do it. Get on the plane. Hope for the best. Give yourself extra time to chase down the authority you need to talk to.


Maybe they did try VHF, SSB, email, mobile, etc. Wouldn't make a difference. The chance that somebody would answer is pretty low. Like it or not, they made contact the way one must in SI- face to face. Why not push on to Honiara? I dunno- ask them, they probably had a good reason. Or maybe not; it's not for internet warriors to assign cause with zero information.


It's a cultural thing; responding to a constant barrage of white men wanting something (and they always want something) is a PITA. Phones, emails, offices, etc don't have to be manned constantly; there's always tomorrow. Or the next day. It's called Solomon Time, which is a big step above Caribbean Island Time, and makes Island Time seem punctual.


Want to see somebody in Taro Bay? Go there. There are a few exceptions; in Munda both Milton at the Kava Bar and Agnes Lodge will respond pretty quick. But don't bother attempting to reach the local police. I mean, we're talking about a country with no 911-type emergency services; most hospital rooms have glass-slat windows. And life is too short to work all the time.


As far as laws, well they are extremely flexible for locals. Not so much for foreigners without connections. It does me no good to judge law enforcement, as my own country enforces laws that don't exist while ignoring laws set in stone. Did they break the law? Apparently so. Did they have a choice? I don't know.


The important points here, in case I wasn't clear: (1) don't judge without details, don't make assumptions, and (2) don't think you're going to just contact somebody in SIG. It's a different world.


Go visit Solomons. It may do you some good.

[goboatingnow]

Again , I question the mentality of leisure sailors with no compunction to go anywhere , sailing in a pandemic.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Again , I question the mentality of leisure sailors with no compunction to go anywhere , sailing in a pandemic.

Says the man sitting comfortably at home not in the middle of nowhere and far from home..
Save the righteous judgements till there's feedback from the parties involved as to cause and reasoning..
Once again CF leaps to assumptions.. which have often proved wrong in the past as I well know.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Lots of armchair quarterbacking here....eight pages!


Why didn't they stop at Vila? Tikopia? I dunno, maybe they did. From Fiji, a direct course would take them either north or south of San Christobal; if they went north of San Christobal, why didn't they stop at Ulawa? On the other hand, if they went south, the first decent stop is indeed Aola Bay on Guadalcanal.



I don't know, and it's not right for me to suggest what they did or did not do.


Why didn't they contact SIG on SSB, VHF, or email? And that's where it gets funny.


Anyone every actually try to contact SIG? Good luck.


It's a cultural thing. It's good, it's not bad, it's perspective of culture.


Roy was supposed to pick me up at 8am, he showed up at 3pm. Harry was supposed to meet me at 6pm so I could get my stuff he was storing until the flight the next morning, Harry was a no-show; I had to rely on coconut wireless to find him at his kid's soccer game.



Most of the emails and phone numbers published are wrong (not that it really matters.) While clearing into LAX with SI licensed goods, US Customs tried to verify my story by calling the office of record in Honiara....when I told them the office burned down three years prior and hadn't been replaced they looked at me like I was the biggest idiot unable to craft a decent story.


Go ahead. Try it. Send an email. Contact with SSB. Call by phone. Good luck.


If Jimmy is supposed to man the VHF, and Jimmy decides to go spend a week with his family on Choisul, nobody gets put in his place. Absurd by western standards, but typical in Solomons (and Pohnpei, and Tarawa and....)


Solomons is a here-and-now, face-to-face place. I get there, go visit a colleague in his office. Did you get my email? It's either "yeah, I forgot to reply" or "I haven't checked email in two weeks."



It happens to researchers requesting permits all the time. No response. They ask me how I do it. Get on the plane. Hope for the best. Give yourself extra time to chase down the authority you need to talk to.


Maybe they did try VHF, SSB, email, mobile, etc. Wouldn't make a difference. The chance that somebody would answer is pretty low. Like it or not, they made contact the way one must in SI- face to face. Why not push on to Honiara? I dunno- ask them, they probably had a good reason. Or maybe not; it's not for internet warriors to assign cause with zero information.


It's a cultural thing; responding to a constant barrage of white men wanting something (and they always want something) is a PITA. Phones, emails, offices, etc don't have to be manned constantly; there's always tomorrow. Or the next day. It's called Solomon Time, which is a big step above Caribbean Island Time, and makes Island Time seem punctual.


Want to see somebody in Taro Bay? Go there. There are a few exceptions; in Munda both Milton at the Kava Bar and Agnes Lodge will respond pretty quick. But don't bother attempting to reach the local police. I mean, we're talking about a country with no 911-type emergency services; most hospital rooms have glass-slat windows. And life is too short to work all the time.


As far as laws, well they are extremely flexible for locals. Not so much for foreigners without connections. It does me no good to judge law enforcement, as my own country enforces laws that don't exist while ignoring laws set in stone. Did they break the law? Apparently so. Did they have a choice? I don't know.


The important points here, in case I wasn't clear: (1) don't judge without details, don't make assumptions, and (2) don't think you're going to just contact somebody in SIG. It's a different world.


Go visit Solomons. It may do you some good.

Thank you for your information, it’s great when people who know pertinent information provide said information.

So electronic comms wouldn’t work, fine. Unfortunately, their story story still breaks down since they avoided the official port of entry. That’s what looks really shady.

[Tetepare]

Well, without knowing the details, I won't jump to conclusions whether the sailing yachts anchoring in Aola Bay was shady or not.




What was shady was when Jos and I were sitting roadside in Ranadi (east of Honiara). We watched a bright yellow Suzuki truck go by and Jos said "There goes my truck." Meaning, it was stolen. I said, "why don't you call the police?" to which Jos replied "he is the police."


Or when Justin Taylan was detained on a hired motor yacht, headed from PNG for check-in at Ghizo. Motoring by Ballale, he saw barges illegally loading wrecked WW2 Japanese aircraft. So, being the good person Justin is, he reported it. Problem is, Justin is (was) also naive, and didn't consider the fact that there might be some big Solomon Islands Government players behind this illegal looting. As a result, he was confined to the boat in Ghizo harbor for 67 days, which incidentally is how long it took to get the rest of the aircraft off Ballele, and headed for Australia. Not incidentally, the intercepting police boat was made in Australia and running on Australian-paid fuel.


Or the time I was intercepted at Henderson airport by Bureau of Criminal Investigations. I hadn't done anything illegal, but they "couldn't" let me go. They couldn't let me go because I'd PO'd a local criminal, who called in a favor with RSIP. In the end, I paid off the cops.


Shady? From our perspective. Clearly they have a different perspective. And that's all I'm calling it. Law enforcement in my country has proven itself to be pretty shady, even by our own standards. So I'm not calling any kettles.