Cruising Rallies: Pros & Cons

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

There is a difference between loosely organized events like MVW describes above and formal rallies like the ARC and its imitators... events with hefty fees, mandatory inspections, scheduled events such as briefings and cocktail parties.

The former are (IMO) not what the OP was on about and could perhaps be better described as communications groups rather than rallies, and are similar in some ways to the old time maritime mobile ham nets that we enjoyed back in the 80s and 90s... and not so objectionable to me. But as soon as you have a set schedule, and all the other "features" of the major rallies, well, I lose interest rapidly. And when you add a big entry fee to join in the parade I'm outta there!

A common comment in many posts upthread is relative to making friends with your fellow rallyers. Well, we seem to have made "life-long friends" without the aid of rallies, just as all of our cruising acquaintances have done over the years. I don't see this as a big attractant but will admit that it might help some folks gain social connections. The risk there is becoming dependant upon a group leader rather than developing one's own cruising social skills. And this leads to situations like Ann has mentioned upthread where rally members don't interact with other non-rally cruisers or the locals they have sailed so far to join... just their own group members. I think this is truly sad!

Anyhow, off my soapbox now! The OP was wondering if rallies were worthwhile and various opinions have emerged. If the OP happens to still be around, I hope that we have collectively given him some ideas to consider.

Jim

I think the way you've drawn a distinction makes a lot of sense. I sorta thought the Baja Ha Ha was a highly structured event but it's not (BTW - entrance fee is around $500 - there were 120 entrants last year).

There is another rally that follows the exact route the Baja Ha Ha does but only goes every other year and leaves about 2-weeks later,. CUBAR is for powerboats only so on the surface would be a logical choice for us. CUBAR is highly structured with inspections, fleet mechanic, doctor, etc. It's a genuine concierge affair where you write a hefty check. Frankly, this style of powerboat cruiser tends to be pretty cliquish to begin with - cloaking them in a walled garden makes it even more insular.

Even though we were just one of six powerboats in the Baja Ha Ha, it was by far a better fit for us than CUBAR. And frankly, it's only a "good fit" but not great fit. In hindsight, it's a great way to launch into overnight distance sailing, but not really cruising. And by cruising, I mean burrowing down into places you visit. The BHH makes two stops at very small villages and while it's become famous for community outreach (the local school closes so the kids can attend the Baseball Game which also draws folks from many miles around), it's really about sailing. Nothing wrong with that.

I will say the BHHs organizer, past publisher of Latitude 38, makes effort to communicate you're on your own. At the skippers meeting prior to departure, someone asked if they should go inside or outside Cedros Island. "That's your call skipper." For us, the fleet split at the second stop due to relatively high winds in the upper 20s. No problem whatsoever. BTW - entrance into 2024 BHH just opened last week and there were 61 sign-ups in the first 24 hours!!! Another factoid - SSB has been officially retired as a method of distance fleet comms. Last year, there were only 7 boats with SSB, 3 of them had issues. Starlink has wholly displaced SSB for long range comms.

I do think there are interesting evolutions afoot in cruising rallies. In thinking through it, Panama Posse is a "cruising platform", not a rally. Although I'm lukewarm on PP due to awful comm apps, the format is super helpful and will only improve as the network of participants expands. I also think the App "NoForeignLand" has "platform" attributes because it has the ability to track willing boats in addition to the Active Captain style user reviews. We met a very seasoned south African catamaran simply because we could see his provenance on NFL which was so impressive that we hailed him. Nice couple had been cruising for about 8-years.

In closing, we have been super impressed with the people we've met, and BHH and PP have enhanced those opportunities. We're both in our 60s and came from successful corporate careers and have a Rolodex chockablock full of acquaintances. But connecting deeply with people at this stage of life is more difficult. Cruising has been a breath of fresh air. There are so many people who are lifelong learners who seek our new experiences.

[Dockhead]

There is no one size fits all answer to this, because there are all kinds of different rallies.

I've done a few and had great fun with them, particularly the YBW cross-Channel rally. This is relatively small and highly informal affair where you get to meet your online acquaintances in real life for a weekend in Cherbourg. The dinners and pontoon parties were great fun.

I think large and highly structured rallies would be less interesting, at least for my taste.

When we crossed the Atlantic recently we crossed paths with the ARC in the Canaries and in Cape Verde and the participants seemed to be having a very pleasant time doing it together. We did not participate in the ARC and crossed alone -- to each his own -- we had a large and experienced crew and a fast boat and didn't feel attracted to the rally in our particular case.

I have always recommended the ARC to people wanting to cross and doing their first big blue water passage, and not a single person I so advised regretted doing it.

So I don't know why we would talk someone out of a rally, if he or she is intrigued by it. Try it, and decide yourself. If you don't like it, just don't do it again! It's not more complicated than that.

[SailingHarmonie]

A recent conversation with a friend on a rally:

How much wiggle room do they give you for a weather window?

None. You leave on the day you know a year ahead.

This is so contrary to good seamanship, and it eliminates most of the reason for a rally supposedly helping with weather routing. As a result, he spent 7 days motoring instead of sailing. That’s not weather routing. That’s not safe ocean crossing.

I know not all rallies handle this the same way, but on my boat I make the departure decisions based on my reading of the weather. Me. Only.

What exactly are they paying for, other than a party when they arrive?

[Kettlewell]

What exactly are they paying for, other than a party when they arrive?

I personally don't like to follow the crowd, or participate in one. I can vividly remember being safely in the ICW listening on the SSB net (back in the day) to a rally group being beat up offshore in a nasty gale. We had left the same marina at the same time, and the gale was predicted. But, they had a schedule to keep...

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

A recent conversation with a friend on a rally:



This is so contrary to good seamanship, and it eliminates most of the reason for a rally supposedly helping with weather routing. As a result, he spent 7 days motoring instead of sailing. That’s not weather routing. That’s not safe ocean crossing.

I know not all rallies handle this the same way, but on my boat I make the departure decisions based on my reading of the weather. Me. Only.

What exactly are they paying for, other than a party when they arrive?

The third leg of this years Baja Ha Ha had very heavy winds. Departure was delayed a half day, though much of the fleet chose to leave the next morning. While Ive never done any other type of rally, I'd suppose this is normal procedure - what's great sailing for an experienced crew is avoided by those either less experienced or less willing to endure the conditions. So I'd say it's not that you leave on a date set w year ahead rather you're prepared to leave on the day. If something changes, then departure changes.

Someone up thread noted the anti-rally folks had probably never been on a rally but spoke from impressions versus knowledge. Guessing SailingHarmony is in the "never done one" crowd?

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

The third leg of this years Baja Ha Ha had very heavy winds. Departure was delayed a half day, though much of the fleet chose to leave the next morning. While Ive never done any other type of rally, I'd suppose this is normal procedure - what's great sailing for an experienced crew is avoided by those either less experienced or less willing to endure the conditions. So I'd say it's not that you leave on a date set w year ahead rather you're prepared to leave on the day. If something changes, then departure changes.

Someone up thread noted the anti-rally folks had probably never been on a rally but spoke from impressions versus knowledge. Guessing SailingHarmony is in the "never done one" crowd?

Never done one, never will. Hate parties, hate crowds. Don’t need hand holding. Don’t want to race, on any level.

I think is is always so funny that people who don’t know me feel the need to tell me, “Try it you’ll like it.” I am not telling you not to go on a rally if you are a party person who likes crowds, or are scared of making your own decisions. I know there are people like that in the world. Feel free, have fun. Just be sure to pick a rally that actually meets you needs for what you want.

If I know a rally is in town, I find another anchorage far from the crowd, or just sail away.

[trswem]

It sounds like the antithesis of why I got into sailing.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Never done one, never will. Hate parties, hate crowds. Don’t need hand holding. Don’t want to race, on any level.

I think is is always so funny that people who don’t know me feel the need to tell me, “Try it you’ll like it.” I am not telling you not to go on a rally if you are a party person who likes crowds, or are scared of making your own decisions. I know there are people like that in the world. Feel free, have fun. Just be sure to pick a rally that actually meets you needs for what you want.

If I know a rally is in town, I find another anchorage far from the crowd, or just sail away.

No one said "try it you'll like it." Only said that the folks with strong negative reactions have never done one yet feel their opinion is helpful to someone who asks the pluses and minuses.

To the OP: sounds like cranky, anti-social curmudgeons avoid rallies. A point in their favor on my book.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

A recent conversation with a friend on a rally:
“How much wiggle room do they give you for a weather window?
None. You leave on the day you know a year ahead.”
...

Bullroar!
Rallys delay for weather, all the time.
EG:
World ARC Pacific Delayed Start
➥ https://www.worldcruising.com/newsar...ID=274087&src=

Originally Posted by World Cruising Club

“The forecast weather conditions for the scheduled start date will be unsuitable for the first two days of the passage from Port Vila, Vanuatu, to Mackay in Australia. After this weather pattern has cleared, the SE trades are expected to re-establish and we will receive the weather more typical of the season around Vanuatu.

Having spoken to all the skippers, everyone would prefer to wait for improved weather conditions, therefore Rally Control have decided to delay the start by 48 hours to allow the weather to settle.

The start of the last leg of this Rally, leg 7 - Port Vila to Mackay, is delayed by a minimum of 48 hours until at least Saturday 16th, 0900LT (UTC+11).”

Originally Posted by mvweebles

The third leg of this years Baja Ha Ha had very heavy winds. Departure was delayed a half day, ...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

A recent conversation with a friend on a rally:

This is so contrary to good seamanship, and it eliminates most of the reason for a rally supposedly helping with weather routing. As a result, he spent 7 days motoring instead of sailing. That’s not weather routing. That’s not safe ocean crossing.

I know not all rallies handle this the same way, but on my boat I make the departure decisions based on my reading of the weather. Me. Only.

What exactly are they paying for, other than a party when they arrive?

Depends on the latitude and area. For a trade winds crossing in the right season, you don't really choose weather windows; it doesn't matter.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Never done one, never will. Hate parties, hate crowds. Don’t need hand holding. Don’t want to race, on any level. . . .

People are all different, of course. Probably more obvious than obvious if you don't like to socialize, then what possible purpose would there be to participate in a rally?


For others, it can be a lot of fun.

[Thomas1985]

Originally Posted by Farang

I agree ☝️110% . I joined a rally with mostly SailSEAsia FB members in 2020 for the sole reason of the promise of 2x6 month Indo visas to go surfing and planned do my own thing. But we got chased out of Aceh and herded onto remote no internet Lord of the Flies type island in western Sumatra. Like sheep they followed each other around trying to figure out how to open a coconut and which type A would be leader!! I got stuck waiting for spare parts and endured 3 months living with them. . Never again will I join a rally. To make matters worse they were all genetically challenged and the men just bitched about their sexless marriages. Sorry, tmi! But look here for yourself.

LMAO!!!!

[Tsuru]

We purchased Aurora when she was dead ended in Tahiti due to the Covid lock downs. The previous owners were on a ARC rally that was cancelled. As my wife and I sailed around the Society Islands we met several of the ARC rally group still waiting for downwind destinations to open. In every case they were interesting, seasoned sailors that didn’t need the rally. The Oyster rally came through while we were there and pretty much the same thing. I never asked why they joined the rally because I really didn’t care.

I can see how a group of boats like this could negatively impact a remote area. Although the Leeward Islands are not particularly remote I didn’t notice a impact from the rallies. I’m sure there was impact in the Tuomotos but based solely on my observations the fleet was split up and had the autonomy to go where they wanted.
As the Covid lockdown eased a large group of sailors arrived from the West Coast. This was in addition to the crusing boats already there. From my perspective the additional impact from the rally’s was unnoticeably. The point is that we were just as responsible for the crowd impact as everybody else.

We recently joined the Baja Ha Ha rally. Our reasons for joining are our own, but for me a big part is that my wife enjoys social interaction, and I enjoy her being happy, simple as that. When I look over the list of entires it’s a diverse group. Some with lots of experience and others with a bit less. Kind of like a typical anchorage in Polynesia. This is our first rally so we’ll see how it goes.

[Thomas1985]

The best part of the sailboat is getting away from other people.

Last thing I want is a hoarde of humans following me around.

[Kettlewell]

Our reasons for joining are our own, but for me a big part is that my wife enjoys social interaction, and I enjoy her being happy, simple as that.

We have never once found a problem finding social interaction anywhere we have cruised. You don't need a rally for that! However, I have noticed the rally fleets become a clique unto themselves. The notorious New York Yacht Club Cruise is the ultimate example. We were anchored way Down East in Cutler once when the NYYC fleet showed up and chased us out of the harbor. Someone actually told us we had to up anchor to make way for the fleet. They proceeded to raid the local general store down to bare shelves. I hope they had ready access to resupply for the locals. Luckily, we were able to eavesdrop on the VHF and figure out where they were going in order to avoid them.