FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

[rognvald]

For the record, I spent ten years sailing/cruising the Keys before crossing the stream, yearly, going West and South. Derelict boat were a problem of safety and security in the anchorages besides being an eyesore to property owners with waterfront property. My comments are as follows:
1. There is no constitutional right for every American citizen to own
a boat
2. If you own a boat, you have a responsibility to maintain it in
working order for safety and security concerns
3. The reality that "homeless" people are living in derelict vessels
can be the a lack of a work initiative, mental illness, or loss of
substantial income to live a traditional lifestyle. Two of these are
fixable, one, perhaps, is not.
4. The government has the obligation to protect all of its citizens,
not a select few, and people who own expensive waterfront
property and pay very high taxes have a real expectation of
local government to prevent a homeless encampment as their
waterside view--no different than a taxpaying homeowner has a right to
clean streets devoid of people living in tents and cardboard
boxes outside his front door.
5. The real problem is that we have a government today that has
no real standards at its core and the perverse and shameful
use of taxpayer dollars that could be used to the benefit of
ALL AMERICANS-rich and poor. Sadly, nothing is ever done
until the situation becomes untenable(as is the case here) and
the issue becomes one of taxpayers rights and public safety.
6. In finality, it must be stated that the majority of these people/vessels
are not cruising sailors and most of the vessels could not
even move from their moorings without being towed. They
reflect poorly on those of us who are responsible boat owners
and endanger our future rights to cruise and anchor freely without
undue rules and regulations.
Sometimes I wonder, in my quiet moments, what our Founding Fathers would think when they see the pathetic state of our country and how far we have strayed from our original ideals. This entire debate is just a small example of where we are today. Perhaps it is just another signpost along the road to our destruction. Good luck and safe sailing.

[SURV69]

Originally Posted by rognvald

For the record, I spent ten years sailing/cruising the Keys before crossing the stream, yearly, going West and South. Derelict boat were a problem of safety and security in the anchorages besides being an eyesore to property owners with waterfront property. My comments are as follows:
1. There is no constitutional right for every American citizen to own
a boat
2. If you own a boat, you have a responsibility to maintain it in
working order for safety and security concerns
3. The reality that "homeless" people are living in derelict vessels
can be the a lack of a work initiative, mental illness, or loss of
substantial income to live a traditional lifestyle. Two of these are
fixable, one, perhaps, is not.
4. The government has the obligation to protect all of its citizens,
not a select few, and people who own expensive waterfront
property and pay very high taxes have a real expectation of
local government to prevent a homeless encampment as their
waterside view--no different than a taxpaying homeowner has a right to
clean streets devoid of people living in tents and cardboard
boxes outside his front door.
5. The real problem is that we have a government today that has
no real standards at its core and the perverse and shameful
use of taxpayer dollars that could be used to the benefit of
ALL AMERICANS-rich and poor. Sadly, nothing is ever done
until the situation becomes untenable(as is the case here) and
the issue becomes one of taxpayers rights and public safety.
6. In finality, it must be stated that the majority of these people/vessels
are not cruising sailors and most of the vessels could not
even move from their moorings without being towed. They
reflect poorly on those of us who are responsible boat owners
and endanger our future rights to cruise and anchor freely without
undue rules and regulations.
Sometimes I wonder, in my quiet moments, what our Founding Fathers would think when they see the pathetic state of our country and how far we have strayed from our original ideals. This entire debate is just a small example of where we are today. Perhaps it is just another signpost along the road to our destruction. Good luck and safe sailing.

Maybe the founding fathers would think that giving poor people the right to vote was a big mistake ...

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You read something in my post that I did not write. The boats have been there for months, perhaps years. No owners or occupants have been seen. For all intents, they were abandoned because disposing of them properly costs money.

A fifth boat that I did not mention is used occasionally and when it drifted because of the storm, someone came and put it back where it was.

Ron.

She read that into it as far as being connected to Mathew. You had stated it correctly as being a long standing problem. Maybe we can get them to spend some of the 1/2 cent sales tax increase on it and label it road improvement. The ballet neglects to mention 526.

Roger

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Actually, I was a vagrant except for the part about begging for income, I worked in fish plants and on charter boats, both in Alaska and Florida, I never asked for nor received a hand out from a private individual or from the government.

I was just messin with ya...

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by SURV69

Maybe the founding fathers would think that giving poor people the right to vote was a big mistake ...

Well, if you know your American History you are aware that the only people allowed to vote when our country was founded were people who owned property. The wisdom of our Founding Fathers was: Who would have a better interest in the welfare of the country than someone who owned a piece of it?--a logic that is lost on most people today. Good luck and safe sailing.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Well, if you know your American History you are aware that the only people allowed to vote when our country was founded were people who owned property. The wisdom of our Founding Fathers was: Who would have a better interest in the welfare of the country than someone who owned a piece of it?--a logic that is lost on most people today. Good luck and safe sailing.

Make that "white men who owned property."

[SURV69]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Well, if you know your American History you are aware that the only people allowed to vote when our country was founded were people who owned property. The wisdom of our Founding Fathers was: Who would have a better interest in the welfare of the country than someone who owned a piece of it?--a logic that is lost on most people today. Good luck and safe sailing.

hmmm ... I think I knew that ... I think that's why I said that ...

I kinda get the impression that you might subscribe to the wisdom of 200+ years ago.

I'm sure that to many, poor people are very much like derelict boats ... incapable with no drive and no direction ... preferably, with no voice ...

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by SURV69

hmmm ... I think I knew that ... I think that's why I said that ...

I kinda get the impression that you might subscribe to the wisdom of 200+ years ago.

I'm sure that to many, poor people are very much like derelict boats ... incapable with no drive and no direction ... preferably, with no voice ...

For me to have gleaned prescience from your previous ambiguous remark about poor people--would mean that I am clairvoyant--I am not. The fact remains that many "poor" people in early America did vote when they became part of the system established by our Founding Fathers and played by the rules. It's how the system works. And, for you to assume that a statement of fact about the voting laws which governed post-Revolutionary America implies a position "for" or "against" is more in your imagination than in what I wrote. In regards to your last statement, one would have to be patently naive and uninformed to believe that all poor people are victims of circumstance. In fact, our History abounds with stories of generations of poor people who immigrated to America and achieved the American Dream. Finally, when we look at 18th Century American History and judge it by 21st Century values, our remarks can only be construed by educated people as naive and disingenuous since you are comparing apples to oranges--a grossly unfair comparison. Good luck and safe sailing. P.S. In our sadly declining American Civilization where twisted and distorted interpretations of our History are made to conform to a mind-numbing, PC interpretation of the past, the only thing that will remain are generations of dumbed down automatons who will dance to the beat of the All Knowing State. Power to the People, Comrade! Captain Rognvald

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Interesting. Makes me think of the majority of non sailors who think rescuing sailors in the open ocean on well founded boats is the height of stupidity and even more offended when it is done on the tax payers dime.

You're equating saving someone's life with cleaning up someone's garbage? Give me a fkin break.

Originally Posted by capt-couillon

With this, I must respectfully disagree... "Derelict Boats" while a problem here as everywhere, has been used in the FL legislature as a red herring to pass laws in the Miami and Ft Lauderdale area that eliminate ANY vessel from anchoring over night. Be careful... they may be coming for your mega buck cat next.

I apparently wasn't clear. That's exactly what I am saying. Derelict boats have been used as justification for increased laws against anchoring. Maybe cleaning up these boats will give the "anti-anchoring" crowd less ammunition. (Or fewer "red herrings" if you prefer?)

[the_fixer]

Bucks for Boats?

$200 per ft for the first 20 - 40 ft
$100 per ft from 41 - 100ft
$50 per ft above 100 ft

Would clear out a bunch of boats not only from the water but from yards and storage facilities ensuring less boats in poor condition or of low value in the future.

People would think twice prior to selling a boat for next to nothing or giving it away and it ending up derelict.

Boat values would go up and people willing to spend money to buy one would be more likely to maintain it.

Builders would likely see a bump as less boats are available

Would be expensive for the state but sounds like they spend a good amount of money on cleanup, disposal and storm related concerns.



Never been to the keys but lived on a boat in Florida for ~8 years.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by rognvald

For the record, I spent ten years sailing/cruising the Keys before crossing the stream, yearly, going West and South. Derelict boat were a problem of safety and security in the anchorages besides being an eyesore to property owners with waterfront property. My comments are as follows:
1. There is no constitutional right for every American citizen to own
a boat
2. If you own a boat, you have a responsibility to maintain it in
working order for safety and security concerns
3. The reality that "homeless" people are living in derelict vessels
can be the a lack of a work initiative, mental illness, or loss of
substantial income to live a traditional lifestyle. Two of these are
fixable, one, perhaps, is not.
4. The government has the obligation to protect all of its citizens,
not a select few, and people who own expensive waterfront
property and pay very high taxes have a real expectation of
local government to prevent a homeless encampment as their
waterside view--no different than a taxpaying homeowner has a right to
clean streets devoid of people living in tents and cardboard
boxes outside his front door.
5. The real problem is that we have a government today that has
no real standards at its core and the perverse and shameful
use of taxpayer dollars that could be used to the benefit of
ALL AMERICANS-rich and poor. Sadly, nothing is ever done
until the situation becomes untenable(as is the case here) and
the issue becomes one of taxpayers rights and public safety.
6. In finality, it must be stated that the majority of these people/vessels
are not cruising sailors and most of the vessels could not
even move from their moorings without being towed. They
reflect poorly on those of us who are responsible boat owners
and endanger our future rights to cruise and anchor freely without
undue rules and regulations.
Sometimes I wonder, in my quiet moments, what our Founding Fathers would think when they see the pathetic state of our country and how far we have strayed from our original ideals. This entire debate is just a small example of where we are today. Perhaps it is just another signpost along the road to our destruction. Good luck and safe sailing.

It looks like you have the Constitution upside down. It is not a bunch of rights bestowed upon "we the people" but in fact is a bunch of prohibitions upon the government not to infringe upon "we the people". And unless specifically restricted or prohibited "we the people" DO have the right to own and operate boats as we see fit. If you don't like it don't point your Federal or State guns at us but talk the voters into enacting a constitutional amendment stating otherwise. That's all.

[IdoraKeeper]

Derelict people create derelict boats. My boat is a yacht only a few days a year, the rest of the time she's just a boat, despite my best efforts. You can not beat stupidity out of people. It's stupid to try. There is an old southern saying. "Don't wrestle a pig in the mud you will only get dirty and the pig likes it." Corallary, "if conservatism was correct Kansas would be paradise." Doubt it? Take a little road trip. Sorry to say, not so much.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

Derelict people create derelict boats. My boat is a yacht only a few days a year, the rest of the time she's just a boat, despite my best efforts. You can not beat stupidity out of people. It's stupid to try. There is an old southern saying. "Don't wrestle a pig in the mud you will only get dirty and the pig likes it." Corallary, "if conservatism was correct Kansas would be paradise." Doubt it? Take a little road trip.

So true. For all of its seemingly liberal stupidity I'll take Massachusetts over some conservative hick states anytime.

[rognvald]

" It is not a bunch of rights bestowed upon "we the people" but in fact is a bunch of prohibitions upon the government not to infringe upon "we the people". " Island Time 025



So, may I assume that you are not aware or have never read America's "Bill of Rights?" I don't think your above statement makes any sense to those who know and understand American History. These "Rights", as named and delineated by our Founding Fathers, are clearly defined and may be viewed in the following link. Good luck and safe sailing

The Bill of Rights (including the Preamble to the Bill of Rights)

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

So true. For all of its seemingly liberal stupidity I'll take Massachusetts over some conservative hick states anytime.

The sad irony of a "liberal" is that they are anything but liberal. How interesting to lump everyone into your tight, unmalleable and restrictive mindset in your reference to "conservative hick states." Perhaps you need to re-read the definition of liberal: "free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant:" How many of your friends, like yourself, fall into that definition? Good luck and safe sailing.