Homeless Anchor out

[Montanan]

The Shilshole Bay Marina in Seattle has a huge and active liveaboard community. Limited to 350 out of 1,430 slips. The Port of Everett, provides for 10% of their 2,198 slips to be liveaboard.

Marina Watch Program
The Marina Watch program is a cooperative effort between the marina community and the Port of Seattle Police Department to promote crime prevention. Please report any incidents or concerns to the Port
of Seattle Police and remember “if you see something, say something.”

Liveaboard Community

At Shilshole Bay Marina, there are 350 families that call their
vessels and the marina home, making the marina the largest
liveaboard community in the state of Washington and one of the
last in the Puget Sound. To ensure strong communication with
this long-established community, dock captains meet quarterly
with marina managers. All boaters are welcome at these meetings. Marina managers work closely with liveaboards to understand which issues are important to them.
A liveaboard is defined as any person spends more than 15 days/nights aboard in any month while the vessel is moored at the marina. The Port of Seattle limits the number of authorized liveaboard vessels to
350 and the liveaboard community is currently at its cap. Current customers may add their name to the liveaboard waitlist with the marina office, and are given preference over new waitlist customers. Upon receiving a liveaboard moorage offer, a Liveaboard Agreement can be completed in the marina office.

Dock Captains
On every dock, there is one liveaboard who is the designated dock captain. The dock captain is a liaison between the marina and the tenants on the dock and is appointed by liveaboard association and approved by marina management. They are a localized point of contact, upstanding customer, and community leader. Your dock captain’s name and contact information is posted on the bulletin board at the dock gate and available in the marina office.

Pets
All pets must be licensed, on a leash, and in the owner’s control while in the marina. Owners are responsible for immediate and proper cleanup and disposal of pet waste. Mutt Mitts are available at several locations on the marina uplands. Please help your pet be a good neighbor by keeping them off your neighbors’ vessels, cleaning up after them on the docks and uplands, and preventing excessive barking and
other vocalizations. Failure to obey leash, pickup, and other animal control laws is a violation of Port of
Seattle policy and may result in moorage termination.

[Montanan]

[QUOTE=newhaul;3067485]

Originally Posted by Montanan

I was on the chuck wagon ( Carl Vinson ) on the south side of pier 3 .
From 86 to 90 .

Would that be the Jimmy Doolittle Pier 3?

The Pier the Hornet was moored when they loaded it with Doolittle's squadron of sixteen B-25 Bombers in 1942. Doolittle was born in Alameda in 1896.

[newhaul]

[QUOTE=Montanan;3067508]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Would that be the Jimmy Doolittle Pier 3?

The Pier the Hornet was moored when they loaded it with Doolittle's squadron of sixteen B-25 Bombers in 1942. Doolittle was born in Alameda in 1896.

my mistake the north side of the pier . Exactly where she is moored now as a museum.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by newhaul

ok that's California and I don't consider it part of the United States :-):-).

Sounds to me that its not actually a regulation as much as a new way to fleece the masses.
Any where else ?

Alabama has regulations which limit how many people/families are permitted per/toilet shower facilities and septic provisions.
4 persons per 1000gal septic capability/toilet n shower

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

Alabama has regulations which limit how many people/families are permitted per/toilet shower facilities and septic provisions.
4 persons per 1000gal septic capability/toilet n shower

that is part of the building codes in most states its not a limiting thing it is for proper design of septic systems for dirt dwellers .
The exact numbers vary but the basic premise is the same.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by newhaul

that is part of the building codes in most states its not a limiting thing it is for proper design of septic systems for dirt dwellers .
The exact numbers vary but the basic premise is the same.

But it is a limiting thing. No more than 4 persons can live on a septic system of 1000gal capacity. I have been in many RV parks where empty slots were left empty and paying customers turned away because of this law. The same applies to marinas. The last one we lived at could only accept a fixed number of vessels(2 person per vessel) based on the holding tank size on the property. Law requires it and at least in Alabama they routinely inspect facilities and count occupants.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

But it is a limiting thing. No more than 4 persons can live on a septic system of 1000gal capacity. I have been in many RV parks where empty slots were left empty and paying customers turned away because of this law. The same applies to marinas. The last one we lived at could only accept a fixed number of vessels(2 person per vessel) based on the holding tank size on the property. Law requires it and at least in Alabama they routinely inspect facilities and count occupants.

a regulation such as this is not a regulation of the number of vessels in a Marina it is regulating the number of people on a given sewage handling capacity. By that law say your marina can hold 20 boats that would be 40 people ( 2 per boat ) . Now if the septic system was 10k gallon then all slips could have liveaboard vessels. This is not a regulation on the number of vessels it is a regulation for the safe handling of sewage on a given systems size.

[sailorboy1]

FWI - Florida considers anyone living on a boat without a real land address as being homeless

so I'm going over to park and hang with my people

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

FWI - Florida considers anyone living on a boat without a real land address as being homeless

so I'm going over to park and hang with my people

I just might have to join you .
On my coast though . Florida is to hot and humid for me .

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I just might have to join you .
On my coast though . Florida is to hot and humid for me .

pretty cold here, it is 70

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by newhaul

a regulation such as this is not a regulation of the number of vessels in a Marina it is regulating the number of people on a given sewage handling capacity. By that law say your marina can hold 20 boats that would be 40 people ( 2 per boat ) . Now if the septic system was 10k gallon then all slips could have liveaboard vessels. This is not a regulation on the number of vessels it is a regulation for the safe handling of sewage on a given systems size.

It does not regulate how many vessels can be in the marina, but it does directly regulate how many persons can live aboard at each marina. The size of your holding tank (sewage must be pumped UP to city pipes) is but a single element. The number of heads/showers per x amount of patrons is taken into consideration. State inspectors would not allow a single uni-sex head/shower suffice for 40 persons

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

It does not regulate how many vessels can be in the marina, but it does directly regulate how many persons can live aboard at each marina. The size of your holding tank (sewage must be pumped UP to city pipes) is but a single element. The number of heads/showers per x amount of patrons is taken into consideration. State inspectors would not allow a single uni-sex head/shower suffice for 40 persons

There are many regulations that will effectively constrain marinas as to the number of liveaboards [if any are allowed], it can be a zoning density limitation [which is very common], a building code, a sanitation code [e.g., pump out facilities, shoreside water supply, showers, toilets, sewage handling, laundry, garbage collection], parking / storage capacity [e.g., many marinas limit the number of vehicles allowed to be parked per slip and the number of overnight parking, an environmental reg [the basis for the no more than 10% of slips in California], and even an issue of not complying with the Americans with Disabilities Act, [wheel chair accessible slips]. Many of the occupancy constraints that apply to terrestrial facilities and services also apply to marinas. Policy can also be the form of limitation, such as in Florida where the sovereign submerged land lease specifies the usage of the bottomlands, including the number and dimensions of slips and docks, if and how many liveaboards can occupy, etc.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

It does not regulate how many vessels can be in the marina, but it does directly regulate how many persons can live aboard at each marina. The size of your holding tank (sewage must be pumped UP to city pipes) is but a single element. The number of heads/showers per x amount of patrons is taken into consideration. State inspectors would not allow a single uni-sex head/shower suffice for 40 persons

By way of example:

Georgia Department of Natural Resources committee approves 90-day limit on liveaboards at marinas

ATLANTA | The House Natural Resources Committee gave its blessings this morning to legislation that was extend the period boaters can live aboard their boats in a marina or mooring area.

The committee agreed to an amended version of House Bill 1064 by Rep. Jason Spencer, R-Woodbine. The measure raises the maximum allowable days on board each year from 30 to 90.

It’s necessary, he said, to attract vacationers who stop on their way cruising between Florida and states to the North.

“Unfortunately, we get a bad reputation,” he said, noting that Georgia is the only state on the East Coast with a 30-day limit. “I talk to folks in Savannah, and they see the boats going by, and they don’t stop.”

Committee member Rep. Joe Wilkinson, who has a second home in the Golden Isles of Glynn County, agreed that the current limit discourages boaters who might want to stay longer than two weeks while going north and two weeks going south.

“This is something we really do need,” said Wilkinson, R-Sandy Springs. “We see, at St. Simons and at Jekyll, vessels that go right past us, and they would stay if it wasn’t for these restrictions.”

The Department of Natural Resources convinced Spencer to modify his original proposal of unlimited liveaboard periods to just tripling the current period and only in marinas or designated mooring zones. It also recommended adding wording to prohibit derelict boats from anchoring out indefinitely, which is what triggered the current restriction in 1991.

Still, the agency plans to rely on local officials to police it.

“It’s a very difficult thing to enforce,” said Spud Woodward, director of DNR’s Coastal Resources Division.


The marinas will have to be equipped to pump out the sewage holding tanks of the number of boats serving as long-term homes.

Woodward said the wording changes DNR recommended were to prevent the number of seagoing tourists from overwhelming the existing pump-out facilities.

“We don’t know what will happen,” he said.

The bill is ready for the House Rules Committee to schedule it for a vote by the full House. If it passes, the Senate and Gov. Nathan Deal would also give to give their OK.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

pretty cold here, it is 70

that's about my max. Over 75 and I get cranky:-):-):-):-)
I prefer being a homeless liveaboard here .
Keep my boat ship shape they ignore me .

[Montanan]

King Harbor Marina is a major marina in SoCal, it is privately operated under a lease from the City of Redondo Beach. The lease with the city specifically constrains the number of liveaboards, which in turn is constrained by environmental regulations of the State. In addition to the regulatory / lease defined constraints the harbor operator limits the number by policy. Also there are constraints as to the facility being able to infrastructurally support a liveaboard community as one will see as to for example, wattage supply.

Coped below is a snipet from the marina's policy manual, regarding liveaboards.

LIVEABOARDS
A. GENERAL
1. King Harbor Marina is a recreational facility and was not designed to
accommodate liveaboards and the additional wear and tear on the docks,
facilities, electricity requirements, etc., they require. It is the policy of the
Marina to limit the number of liveaboards on each dock due to the design of the Marina and the terms of the Master Lease with the City of Redondo Beach.

2. King Harbor Marina is not a residential facility. The maritime contracts
under which the Owner occupies the Slip are commercial in nature; no
residential tenancy is established whatsoever. The Marina provides only
wharfage (docking) services to Owner. In other words, the Marina rents a
“parking space” for the Owner’s Vessel, and does not rent any dwelling to
Owner.
3. In the absence of express written permission of the Marina and the execution
of a Liveaboard Addendum (91.31), living aboard the Vessel by the Owner
or any other person is strictly prohibited (see Definition of a Liveaboard
and Limits in this section) and constitutes a fundamental breach of the
Wharfage Contract subject to immediate termination and the
assessment of liveaboard fees retroactive to the effective date of the
Wharfage Contract.
4. Should Owner desire to live aboard the Vessel, he/she must obtain written
permission from the Marina and execute a Liveaboard Addendum (91.31).
Only the registered/documented owner of the Vessel and who has
executed both the Wharfage Contract and Liveaboard Addendum is
allowed to live aboard the Vessel. Liveaboard status is a privilege granted
at the sole discretion of the Marina. It also may be revoked by the Marina in
the event the terms and conditions as set forth in the Wharfage Contract or
the Liveaboard Addendum are not met by Owner.
5. The Security Deposit for liveaboards shall equal the sum of two (2) months’
wharfage fees plus two (2) months’ liveaboard fees. The added amount is
required to offset the additional legal considerations and cost involved when
a boat owner lives aboard their vessel.
6. The Marina does not accept packages or deliveries for any boat owner
because of the liability created.
7. No children under the age of 16 can live aboard a vessel.
8. Due to the limited area, potential social conflicts, privacy, and insufficient
electrical service, liveaboards are not allowed to live next to or across from
another liveaboard unless all parties agree in writing.
9. Minimum vessel length for liveaboard use is 30’. Current vessel
registration/documentation in Owner’s name is required prior to Owner
living aboard the Vessel.

B. DEFINITION OF A LIVEABOARD AND LIMITS

1. Liveaboard Defined. A liveaboard may be defined by, but not limited to,
any of the following in the sole judgment of the Marina:
a. Anyone who spends as many or more days/nights aboard their boat
than in any other residence;

b. Anyone who uses the Marina address in personal identification
procedures;
c. Anyone who receives mail at the Marina;
d. Anyone who has no other residence;
e. Anyone who parks a vehicle in the Marina most of the time.
f. Anyone who uses more than 50 watts/hour of electrical power for
more than 150 hours per month or 50 hours per week;
g. Anyone who spends more than three (3) nights in one (1) week, more
than nine (9) nights over a 30-day period or more than one hundred
four (104) nights during any 365-day period.
2. Liveaboard Limits. The total liveaboard limit within King Harbor Marina is
the lesser of ten percent (10%) of the total boat spaces or 83 individuals. In
addition, not more than twelve (12) individuals may live on any one dock, or
two (2) adults plus up to two (2) children ages 16 or over on any one boat, or the maximum number of slips for liveaboard use per dock as noted in the
below table is allowed. **

Reference table attached to this post below.

Under the policy set forth above not all docks can be at maximum at the sametime as the individual totals add up to 191. The Marina will be responsible to insure total liveaboard slips do not exceed the noted limitations in a workable liveaboard pattern within the policy set forth.

C. “SENIOR SALT” LIVEABOARD DISCOUNT PROGRAM
1. “Senior Salt” Liveaboard Discount. The Marina offers a senior liveaboard
discount (“Senior Salt”) to authorized liveaboards who are 65 years of age or
older. Said discount is not automatic, is not retroactive, and only one
discount per Owner account is allowed. Owner must apply for said discount
in writing and provide proof of age. The “Senior Salt” discount under this
section shall be effective as of the date the Marina approves the application at the then-current discount rate.