Homeless Anchor out

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

SNIP

I recall the being an issue in Miami Beach (fortunately just a few days after we'd passed through) a few years ago when you could anchor still, but there was a ban on landing your dinghy anywhere.

SNIP

There was a sea wall where peeps use to tie up dinghies that did have signs posted prohibiting docking. There were multiple reasons for the change. One was garbage being dumped either in the open or in dumpers where the owners were being charged to dispose of it. There were other problems as well; things like unsavory characters with an increase in crime and drug usage and sales. Local businesses were also not happy providing free restrooms for non customers; or customers who really were not supporting the business enough. Not to mention marinas normally have dinghy docks; but they cost money.

Truth be told the real problem is when demand out strips supply then goods and services are rationed by increasing the price. I have cruised extensively in Florida. While I am not always happy to have to pay $US20+ a day to use the dock (usually with restroom and showers) it does not seem outrageous for a day or two. On the other hand if I had to do that every day of the year the cost could add up. But as a cruiser I often anchor out in a secluded anchorage almost all the time. Thing is there are plenty of places like this in Florida; they are just not places that allow easy access to what dirt dwellers are expecting. I can easily go two or three months not needing water, electric, or a pump out. I have a water maker that runs of a big solar array and battery bank and a composting head. And I would expect a real cruiser to have similar capabilities. Instead I see a lot of what some call homeless boats that need to go ashore every day for ice for the cooler to keep the beer cold; not to mention many of these boats are not capable of moving on their own.

[sailorboy1]

Missed a few stereotypes and normal “reasons” i think

[paralog]

Originally Posted by Poche

The keyword is "navigable". Vessels anchoring should be navigating to some degree.

I think this is a key issue, owners should have to prove by some form of test that their vessels are navigable. Most of the derelicts are unable to move under their own power and therefore could fail a navigable test if required. Also liability insurance would put them off the water.
It pisses me off when you tell folks you are a liveaboard and they instantly think that means your boat is covered in birdshit, blue tarps and rusty bikes.
I have little time for derelicts as their actions affect us other boaters by restricting anchoring spots.
I have also had to deal with them when i worked and i know it is also a complex social issue, mental health, drug use and alcoholism are all interwined with derelict liveaboard boats

[slug]

Originally Posted by Poche

I saw this news story and shook my head. If the municipalities would allow anchoring for limited times like a few days I would say do it. But, here in Long Beach, CA you get a couple of days on weekend nights only in the harbor. I have a problem with that. Cruisers travelling up and down the coast don't have the ability to time their schedules like that. Or maybe some do.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...d-afford-water
Actually, I don't believe the municipalities should have the right to do anything. It's a coastal commission or federal jurisdiction. But, these cities impose the rules and any boater who would oppose them is kinda out of luck.

Anchorage’s get abused ..overwhelmed by flee bag liveaboards, abandoned, unattended boats , yacht broker for sale boats ...

What would be your solution to these issues

How would you make these anchorages attractive for transients , touch and go cruisers.

[Group9]

Homelessness on boats is just one more component to the overall homelessness problem. And, like every other type of homelessness, the governments have all decided the answer is to try and get them to move somewhere else. Moving the problem, is seen as just as good as fixing the problem.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Group9

Homelessness on boats is just one more component to the overall homelessness problem. And, like every other type of homelessness, the governments have all decided the answer is to try and get them to move somewhere else. Moving the problem, is seen as just as good as fixing the problem.

once they move on the boat by federal rules ( my state has a slightly different view ) they are not homeless. They have a bed a head and a galley.

My state also requires a mailing address and no a p.o. Box doesn't satisfy that .

Side note tell the marina when you move into it you are a full time cruiser don't say liveaboard. It is a distinction without a difference.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by newhaul

once they move on the boat by federal rules ( my state has a slightly different view ) they are not homeless. They have a bed a head and a galley.

My state also requires a mailing address and no a p.o. Box doesn't satisfy that .

Side note tell the marina when you move into it you are a full time cruiser don't say liveaboard. It is a distinction without a difference.

Yeah, but we all know which boats we are talking about, (even if the governments can't tell the difference between a retired cruising couple on a half million dollar vessel, with plenty of assets and six figure retirement income, and a mentally ill person on a floating wreck, whose only assets are the drugs they haven't yet ingested, and the disability check for drug addiction or mental illness he is waiting on).

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Group9

Yeah, but we all know which boats we are talking about, (even if the governments can't tell the difference between a retired cruising couple on a half million dollar vessel, with plenty of assets and six figure retirement income, and a mentally ill person on a floating wreck, whose only assets are the drugs they haven't yet ingested, and the disability check for drug addiction or mental illness he is waiting on).

100% agreed. My feeling is that my state has one of the best laws in place concerning anchor outs. They must move at every 30 days . A minimum of 5 nautical miles and not anchor in the same area for more than 90 days in a calendar year.

[slug]

From what I have seen the best solution is no anchoring ..mooring bouys only

Price per night varies ..first couple nights free..next few nightS you pay a modest Daily fee ...next few nights you pay A higher daily fee..next few nights you pay an even higher fee

Soon it’s so expensive that you move on
Problem solved

The fees collected pay for a dingy dock , garbage removal, water ...

I like these type of ports

[Happ]

Originally Posted by tomfl

There was a sea wall where peeps use to tie up dinghies that did have signs posted prohibiting docking. There were multiple reasons for the change. One was garbage being dumped either in the open or in dumpers where the owners were being charged to dispose of it. There were other problems as well; things like unsavory characters with an increase in crime and drug usage and sales. Local businesses were also not happy providing free restrooms for non customers; or customers who really were not supporting the business enough. Not to mention marinas normally have dinghy docks; but they cost money.

Truth be told the real problem is when demand out strips supply then goods and services are rationed by increasing the price. I have cruised extensively in Florida. While I am not always happy to have to pay $US20+ a day to use the dock (usually with restroom and showers) it does not seem outrageous for a day or two. On the other hand if I had to do that every day of the year the cost could add up. But as a cruiser I often anchor out in a secluded anchorage almost all the time. Thing is there are plenty of places like this in Florida; they are just not places that allow easy access to what dirt dwellers are expecting. I can easily go two or three months not needing water, electric, or a pump out. I have a water maker that runs of a big solar array and battery bank and a composting head. And I would expect a real cruiser to have similar capabilities. Instead I see a lot of what some call homeless boats that need to go ashore every day for ice for the cooler to keep the beer cold; not to mention many of these boats are not capable of moving on their own.

Excuse me but a composting head? You go to 2 to 3 months without dumping the pee jug? I doubt that very much. I have cruised on a boat with a composting head and every few days the owner would dump the pee jug. You guessed it in the water! Composting heads are slowly being outlawed in various harbors for this exact reason.

In the coastal town I live in we have the same problems you stated above. The solution the town came up with was anchoring is allowed 10 days a month. We have an open bathroom with showers for anyone to use.

However that wasn't good enough as there are always people who want to live for free while others pay for it. For example I know someone who works in town and lives on his boat. He works as a server so his income is somewhat limited. He wants to anchor indefinitely. He fought paying for dock space tooth and nail. Arguing all the time how unfair it was. He wants everything for for free. He wants free water, sewage, head, showers, trash pickup, etc. I pay property taxes to help pay for these services. Shouldn't he? He’s not a cruiser.

We have barrier islands and in the case of hurricanes we find numerous boats washed up on the islands. Last hurricane there were more than 12! Who paid to pull them off the islands? Not the owners. They don't have insurance!

I say to the cruising community look at the way you act as a group. Those few self-serving cruisers are the ones YOU need to blame. You have to do your part or you will really find out what lunch costs. There is is no free lunch. It's up to you!

[Chotu]

For all of the difficulty with this topic, I sincerely hope the enforcers just continue to profile.

I have noticed this works well. They go after the drug dealers, the people disposing of trash incorrectly, the drunks and the troublemakers as well as the people on boats of incredible disrepair.

They tend to leave the real cruisers (tourists) alone.

The local authorities know best who is in their harbor and can be counted on to selectively enforce the laws as appropriate.

I've had nothing but good experiences even in the most stringent south Florida anchorages. Yes, I disliked the Walmart parking lot drug dealer//alcoholic vibe of some of them. However, one by one the local waters cops would get rid of them.

Thinking of Miami Beach in particular. One of the spots in the heart of this debate.

Thinking further, they should be able to ticket people like on land.

Dump trash in inappropriate way? Illegal dumping fine.
Land dinghy where it's not allowed? Parking ticket.
Selling drugs? Off to jail.
Open container/weed? Open container fine/dui.
Parking longer than allowed? Parking fine/tow/padlock boat until fines paid. (Hard to do, I realize)

They could turn it into a revenue center.

Or reasonable town moorings with a patch left for people passing through and limited time of a couple weeks in the anchorage.

The real problem is people trying to live in a harbor for more than a month and people attempting to get free storage by putting their neglected boat at anchor for years. At that point it's time for a mooring.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by newhaul

100% agreed. My feeling is that my state has one of the best laws in place concerning anchor outs. They must move at every 30 days . A minimum of 5 nautical miles and not anchor in the same area for more than 90 days in a calendar year.

You might see that as the 'best laws' but have you considered it in practical reality? I sure would like to keep my employment. After 30 days I have to find another location at least 5 nautical miles away with access for dinghy storage and auto parking to allow transport to work. With city pressure on marinas to not allow living aboard in marinas, and anchoring laws progressively prohibiting living aboard at anchor, where can a person who desires to utilize his vessel as a home go (and have the stability to maintain employment)?
As with most regulations, these curtail the liberty of the law abiding, while having little or no impact on those whom the regulation was targetting.
IMO mandatory liability insurance, combined with aggressive enforcement would remove the majority of vessels (derelict).

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

You might see that as the 'best laws' but have you considered it in practical reality? I sure would like to keep my employment. After 30 days I have to find another location at least 5 nautical miles away with access for dinghy storage and auto parking to allow transport to work. With city pressure on marinas to not allow living aboard in marinas, and anchoring laws progressively prohibiting living aboard at anchor, where can a person who desires to utilize his vessel as a home go (and have the stability to maintain employment)?
As with most regulations, these curtail the liberty of the law abiding, while having little or no impact on those whom the regulation was targetting.
IMO mandatory liability insurance, combined with aggressive enforcement would remove the majority of vessels (derelict).

Actually yes i do think it is a really good law it ensures that the vessels are seaworthy . As to the job issue well thats easy as well every city port marina here allows for tender access at most i have had to oay was a dollar a day. Which included acess to all marina services. Technical fact any government run marina in america they may say no you cant but actually they cant lefally say you cant acess it they are publicly funded . In 2 years living on the hook here i never had any serious issues . Main issue was having to get out of my rack earlier so i could get to work on time.

[Happ]

Those crying about not being able to live on your boat where you want should remember that cities have Zoning codes to protect existing property. So you think you are above the law? The cities or marinas should hire more people to police what is being done by putting rules as in marinas or laws as in towns to make it less desirable to be there? White going to pay for that? You?

I would love to live part-time in Aspen Co. I would love to own a large boat. Like me maybe you need to live within your means. If that means you have to live a certain way to maintain your job thats the price you pay. If not find another place for your boat so you can live on it and get a job you can get to. No one said life is fair.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Actually yes i do think it is a really good law it ensures that the vessels are seaworthy . As to the job issue well thats easy as well every city port marina here allows for tender access at most i have had to oay was a dollar a day. Which included acess to all marina services. Technical fact any government run marina in america they may say no you cant but actually they cant lefally say you cant acess it they are publicly funded . In 2 years living on the hook here i never had any serious issues . Main issue was having to get out of my rack earlier so i could get to work on time.

If you believe having propulsion that enables a vessel to move under it's own power is the definition of 'seaworthy', well....ok then. I haven't lived in an area where there are government operated marinas that allow living aboard, so I am not familiar with that world of which you speak. In the world of privately owned marinas they are required to follow local government regulations, many of which to not permit or seriously restrict marinas to allow living aboard.
As with all other such *restrictions* they only restrict those who are law abiding to begin with. I have been considered *homeless* for the last 10 years because of biased discriminatory laws that require a *permanent fixed address* and many local govt agencies (especially schools) do not accept addresses linked to RV parks. Some are starting to change that view, but it seems the waterfront communities have latched onto that view with a passion.
It's not whining, it's stating a simple fact. The only people being restricted by such anchoring laws are the law abiding, hard working, tax paying citizens. Joe Jobless can fire up his 5hp 2-stroke nailed to the stern of his 30ft floating cesspool and move it every 30 days, proving it is seaworthy, cause all he has to worry about is getting to shore to meet his drug dealer.