It's a buyers market

[MicHughV]

I don't generally pay much attention to the power boat people group, but can provide this observation.
Maybe a couple of years ago or so, and I couldn't say why, there was a massive resurgence in folks buying these quad engined center console boats, 1,200 hp on the back.
One side of our local marina was lined end to end with these boats, all perched on their own out-of-the-water lifts.
These days, that number has been reduced by more than half, and none ever go out. Whether the thrill has worn off, high gas prices or high marina slip fees, or maybe a combination of it all is the cause, I could not say, but the powerboat scene looks to be as dead as the dodo bird from my point of view.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I don't generally pay much attention to the power boat people group, but can provide this observation.
Maybe a couple of years ago or so, and I couldn't say why, there was a massive resurgence in folks buying these quad engined center console boats, 1,200 hp on the back.
One side of our local marina was lined end to end with these boats, all perched on their own out-of-the-water lifts.
These days, that number has been reduced by more than half, and none ever go out. Whether the thrill has worn off, high gas prices or high marina slip fees, or maybe a combination of it all is the cause, I could not say, but the powerboat scene looks to be as dead as the dodo bird from my point of view.

Powerboats like that often get bought for 1 of 2 reasons. Either someone has a good use for it and sticks with it (such as wanting to run to distant fishing grounds and come back same day, so cruising at 60 kts is a big benefit). Or they just think it's cool and bought it as a toy. The "powerboats as toys" group varies widely with the economy (and is also likely shrinking after the COVID boat surge), especially for newer, more expensive boats.

I can't say I'm seeing a big drop in ownership of older, cheaper powerboats. And especially not cruising powerboats (those being the ones where the owners typically hang out with sailors, not other powerboaters).

[MicHughV]

I used to own a twin engined fishing boat....twin 150 Yamaha's.
It drank fuel like crazy. At a cruising speed of around 25 mph, it was burning around 15 gal/hour. Wide open that would go up considerably, in the 40's.

So I can imagine the fuel burn on a 1,200 hp boat to be quite staggering.

I would burn about $300 worth of fuel for a day's fishing, those quad engined boats likely in the $1000 plus range.

Ironically, I can go to our local fish market and buy fish for $8-10/lb....or I could catch it myself for $100/lb.....if I caught anything at all.

When marina fuel costs suddenly went up over $6/gal....I said to myself...time to quit.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I used to own a twin engined fishing boat....twin 150 Yamaha's.
It drank fuel like crazy. At a cruising speed of around 25 mph, it was burning around 15 gal/hour. Wide open that would go up considerably, in the 40's.

So I can imagine the fuel burn on a 1,200 hp boat to be quite staggering.

I would burn about $300 worth of fuel for a day's fishing, those quad engined boats likely in the $1000 plus range.

Ironically, I can go to our local fish market and buy fish for $8-10/lb....or I could catch it myself for $100/lb.....if I caught anything at all.

When marina fuel costs suddenly went up over $6/gal....I said to myself...time to quit.

The fuel burn is pretty crazy. But burning 100 - 110 gal/hr at WOT is slightly less crazy if you think about doing 80 kts with that fuel burn. You're never going to do it all that long before you arrive at your destination. Heck, most of those crazy fast center consoles burn less fuel per mile at 60+ kts than my heavy, slow powerboat does at 17 kts (hence why we typically run at a nice slow cruise of 6.5 kts where we burn less than 1/2 the fuel per mile).

[sailorboy1]

People are still buying brand new boats. Meanwhile no one is building marinas and old boats are still around. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what that means for people trying to sell an old boat.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

People are still buying brand new boats. Meanwhile no one is building marinas and old boats are still around. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what that means for people trying to sell an old boat.

People are building new boats but boats are also continually lost due to storms, neglect, and simply abandoned. Is the total supply of boats actually increasing by any significant amount?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I don't generally pay much attention to the power boat people group, but can provide this observation.
Maybe a couple of years ago or so, and I couldn't say why, there was a massive resurgence in folks buying these quad engined center console boats, 1,200 hp on the back.
One side of our local marina was lined end to end with these boats, all perched on their own out-of-the-water lifts.
These days, that number has been reduced by more than half, and none ever go out. Whether the thrill has worn off, high gas prices or high marina slip fees, or maybe a combination of it all is the cause, I could not say, but the powerboat scene looks to be as dead as the dodo bird from my point of view.

Powerboat scene dead as dodo birds? In my neck of the woods (ICW Florida), center consoles rule - from here, sailing looks endangered and on the way to extinction.

Think folks aren't spending money? A 35-foot Contender with quad 300 hp OBs can easily cost $600k fully outfitted. While upper end, Contender 35s are midpoint these days, though 22-25 footers with twin OBs is probably the average around here, and there are a LOT of boats. In the last couple years, 60+ foot CCs have cropped up in the $1.5m - $2.0 (and up) range. Fuel costs may scare off miserly sailors, but spending $400-500 for a day out with the family is affordable entertainment for many middle class families.

Sailors may be aging out, but smaller go-fast powerboats are doing just fine (albeit returning to earthly sales after a crazy few years).

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Statistical

People are building new boats but boats are also continually lost due to storms, neglect, and simply abandoned. Is the total supply of boats actually increasing by any significant amount?

If hurricane Ian is any indicator, storms that take out boats also take out the marinas where they're berthed.

I can only guess, but pretty sure the net add of boats is very high, especially compared to slips. Derelict anchorages are very full around Florida suggesting there is no room for them. And large corporate interests are aggregating and consolidating marine businesses including sales, manufacturing, service, and marinas. Unlike forum contributions on threads like this, they forecast a profitable future investing in boats.

[fredct]

Many good comments on this thread.



We are new to boating. My own observations (location NE).
1- The learning curve to get into sailing is VERY steep unless one has very deep pockets. In our case, it was sell the boat or sell the company. We sold the company so we could give it a go. Time will tell.

2- Labor is a tremendous issue. I am reasonably handy but some things require pros. Good luck. It took use 4 months to find a welder willing to do work. Electrician, diesel mechanics...

3- Insurance (we got hit with a 20% increase this year - no claim, just changes in the re-insurance market per broker).
4- Marina - docking - mooring. Popular spots can be up to $200 per night for a mooring ball per day.

5- Crowd is OLD. I am old but the people I see in marinas and on the water are way older. Gen-X never got into sailing apparently.

6- Old boats may be well built (and how would one know even that?) but most of the suppliers are out of business long ago. We have a recent vessel with most of the suppliers still in business. Most of those companies do not even bother to distribute in the USA (Thor, Goiot...) as there are basically no more sailboats being made in the USA which links directly to point #2.


Bottom line: sailing is in slow but terminal decline in the NE. It will continue to thrive in the Caribbean and in Europe. Prices and inventory will follow.

[MicHughV]

Well, from my point of view, I can but only compare it to the late 70's, 80's and a portion of the 90's.
Comparing that to the boating activity I see today, is like night and day.

I could write a lengthy dissertation on what I see is the problem, but what is the point.

I refer to an earlier post where I opined on the fact that buying a boat is only one part of the puzzle. Insurance, restrictive anchorages, high marina and fuel costs, etc are the other parts of the puzzle.
I suppose in time, the cycle, will once again, favor boating, but I don't see this happening for some time.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Well, from my point of view, I can but only compare it to the late 70's, 80's and a portion of the 90's.
Comparing that to the boating activity I see today, is like night and day.

I could write a lengthy dissertation on what I see is the problem, but what is the point.

I refer to an earlier post where I opined on the fact that buying a boat is only one part of the puzzle. Insurance, restrictive anchorages, high marina and fuel costs, etc are the other parts of the puzzle.
I suppose in time, the cycle, will once again, favor boating, but I don't see this happening for some time.

Or it never goes to prior glory days. New people will come in the costs while high for old timers will seem "normal" to them. Boating will simply be more expensive and so less people will do it.

It may be similar to civil aviation. The number of private pilots has continued to drop over the years. It isn't going to go away but it will probably never return the glory days of the 1980s. Not next year, not in a decade, not in five.

[MicHughV]

I think it's a multifaceted thing.

I grew up in an era, where homebuilt boats were to be seen on many a driveway.
I myself, built my first boat, from the ground up and knew many that built their own.

Today, can't think of a single place or person who has embarked on such a venture.

My local marina is classic. One of several area marina's bought out by a big conglomerate with big plans, yet only a handful of sailboats remain, compared to only a few years ago, when every slip was taken. Nowadays, empty slips as far as the eye can see. How they remain in business, I have no idea.

Not so long ago, there was another rush to buy existing marina's and built condo's around the place, so that condo owners could have their own slip. Also a short lived experiment, but one that had devasting effect on all the boats that used to call the place home.

Big money has killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Will there be resurgence. Maybe, but unlikely to be in my time.

[Kettlewell]

1- The learning curve to get into sailing is VERY steep unless one has very deep pockets. In our case, it was sell the boat or sell the company. We sold the company so we could give it a go. Time will tell.

That's why my signature includes the Pardey's motto: Go small, Go simple, Go now. Get a smallish older cruising boat without all the modern frufru and start learning. I have never owned a cruising boat that cost more than many ordinary cars that people own who are moaning about the cost of cruising. You really don't need a half-million dollar boat to go anywhere in the world and have a great time! Because it is currently a buyers market due to all the aging baby boomers there are lots of great cruising boats for sale. Some bemoan the fact the older boats will need some work, but I can guarantee you that new boats will also need lots of work. In fact, you need to be able to fix most things onboard yourself no matter what age your boat is if you want to cruise. Services and parts are not readily available at any price in many wonderful sailing destinations. Repairing your boat in exotic places is a true description of cruising.

[more]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

People are still buying brand new boats. Meanwhile no one is building marinas and old boats are still around. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what that means for people trying to sell an old boat.

bavaria sailboat one time sale over 3000 boat annually now is under 300
also brunswick over 15000 boat annually i dont know how much today.
american stop buy sail boat in Croatia now 12 month. out fleet must go 1200-1500 sailboat. i also think is time to leave charter market, if somebody buy new boat for charter,this guy need hospitalizations for psihic illness.
now discount for new charter boat is 50%+5%+ 15-20% agent fee.

monopoly dice roll

look now this hanse 508 2428€ charter company recive 2428 x 60% 1456€ recive owner .owner expense is +-4000-5000€ depend

Also charter company have lose on this price becouse rent warehouse,staff,recepcion id fixed expense and ussualy 99,99% have more problem with low price customer.
PS.
Padell boat on beach is rent for 100-150€ per day.
eletric bike,scooter is i think 50€ day

[MicHughV]

I see this like I see the used car market.
We have many streets here lined with car dealers, new and used.
I could not even guess at the number of cars on the lots, certainly must number in the 10,000 plus range.
I'm told by people in the know, that most folk hang on to their vehicles much longer than they used to. Cars are also much more reliable these days. Putting 200,000-300,000 miles on the odometer is not uncommon.
When people want another car, it is invariable a used model. New car sales are pitiful.

I think the boat market is in a similar position. So many used boats available, why shop for a new one, which much like a car takes a big depreciation hit up front.