Man Found Dead In Life Raft

[HappyMdRSailor]

Hope beyond hope that this is the tragic accident it appears to be...

A warning to all that even SAS special forces, yachtmaster trained, experienced skippers have things like this happen...

No due diligence and caution are "too much"

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

No due diligence and caution are "too much"

Ummm, i beg to disagree. Caution can be too much if it wrecks an achievable endevour.

From the Guardian news

Kay Wilson, a diver who has lived in St Vincent and the Grenadines for 12 years, was out on a dive trip when one of her crew members spotted smoke on the horizon at 11.45am local time on Wednesday.

She told Sky News: "When we reached about a quarter of a mile off we saw a flashing light, which you would normally associate with a life jacket. So we approached cautiously and we found somebody in the water with the life jacket around their neck approximately 150-200ft away from the yacht at the time. It was a male."

Wilson said that by then the flames had engulfed the vessel. "It was almost raised to the water line, and the heat and the smoke which were coming were just incredible. Had anybody else been on the yacht at the time, there was no way to know at all."

She told Sky News that what she saw suggested that there had been an accident. "The fact that the captain of the vessel was in the water, he had launched his safety raft and the fact that we were able to find documents floating away from the vessel when we searched further, I would suggest that there had been an accident on board, the fire had overtaken the vessel and the captain had decided to leave."

Briton found dead after yacht blaze in Caribbean | World news | theguardian.com

[HappyMdRSailor]

[QUOTE=MarkJ;1503898]Ummm, i beg to disagree. Caution can be too much if it wrecks an achievable endevour.

I don't get the comment Mark???

I was referring to gas/other myriad of "fatality possibility failure" cruising equipment due diligence... I probably wasn't too clear...

Maybe you were just referring to "chances not taken"???

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

I don't get the comment Mark???

I was referring to gas/other myriad of "fatality possibility failure" cruising equipment due diligence... I probably wasn't too clear...

Maybe you were just referring to "chances not taken"???

I don't think boats can be made fail safe.
Life can't be fail safe either otherwise we spend our time enveloped in cotton wool at home watching others enjoying the life we could have had.

So i disagree with the thought that nothing is too much when its about safety. The only way to sail safely is in a hotel room on land.



Whatever the reason for this death we can take it as a lesson, but not to lessen our cruising.


Mark

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I don't think boats can be made fail safe.
Life can't be fail safe either otherwise we spend our time enveloped in cotton wool at home watching others enjoying the life we could have had.

So i disagree with the thought that nothing is too much when its about safety. The only way to sail safely is in a hotel room on land.



Whatever the reason for this death we can take it as a lesson, but not to lessen our cruising.


Mark

Gotchya! Well said... Last point in full agreement!

[zboss]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Ummm, i beg to disagree. Caution can be too much if it wrecks an achievable endevour.

From the Guardian news




Briton found dead after yacht blaze in Caribbean | World news | theguardian.com

I think there is more to this story. The sequence of events of how a propane explosion could result in someone abandoning ship and then dying, without a VHF mayday or EPRIRB distress from either person aboard is odd. They had time to gather ships papers and launch a liferaft?

[delmarrey]

The scenario I see is;
the guy had a fire on board, whether electrical or fuel, and tried to put it out. Failing to do so decided to abandon ship but wasn't fast enough. Once the fire reaches any fuel sources then there would be an explosion. He may have not got off before that.

If there had been an explosion first there wouldn't have been a life raft or a ditch bag.

[JRM]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

The scenario I see is;

the guy had a fire on board, whether electrical or fuel, and tried to put it out. Failing to do so decided to abandon ship but wasn't fast enough. Once the fire reaches any fuel sources then there would be an explosion. He may have not got off before that.



If there had been an explosion first there wouldn't have been a life raft or a ditch bag.

A big issue with LPG cylinders when exposed to fire or high heat is the possibility of BLEVE. Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion. Even with a functioning OPV, it can happen.

Even a 1lbs. Propane cylinder would be enough to demolish the average sailboat. So, while only pure speculation on my part, your scenario is plausible. The fire doesn't have to involve the propane system in any way other than to impinge the cylinder.

To paraphrase MarkJ (apologies in advance), "Stuff happens." Sometimes there just isn't anyone to blame.

My condolences to all affected by this.

JRM

-- There's an interesting human reaction to tragedy sometimes. I see it at work. The "it's the victim's fault, he must have screwed up" reaction. It's sort of a defense mechanism so that we can deny that it (whatever it may be) could happen to us. It's one reason people are so drawn to causation speculation. Myself included.

[Sailor g]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The only way to sail safely is in a hotel room on land.

Mark

I feel much safer on my boat at anchor than any hotel room on land. On my boat, any mistake is mine. In a hotel, my room can burn because someone fell asleep with a lit cigarette in another room. I like the water space-fewer people can get out there. 😎

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I don't think boats can be made fail safe.
Life can't be fail safe either otherwise we spend our time enveloped in cotton wool at home watching others enjoying the life we could have had.

So i disagree with the thought that nothing is too much when its about safety. The only way to sail safely is in a hotel room on land.



Whatever the reason for this death we can take it as a lesson, but not to lessen our cruising.


Mark

I don't recommend cotton wool. That stuff is highly flammable.

[socaldmax]

This thread is very interesting. The news stories very clearly state that there was only one person found in the water, near a life raft. There was no other person in the water, or in the yacht. His wife was already in Norway, having arrived a day before the fire/explosion.

So the questions I have are these:

How do people (including the local Inspector Clusoe) think the wife somehow triggered a fire/explosion from thousands of miles away? Did she take a Muslim terrorist course online and learn to make IEDs triggered by a cell phone call?

Why are people talking about a 2nd person injured/burned? Where did that come from?

Why are people mentioning the crime rate in the area and boat boys? Unless they were extremely good at faking the lacerations of an explosion, setting fire to the yacht and liferaft and throwing the go bag into the water (a very well thought out touch, by the way) and escaping undetected, I really don't see any connection between local thugs/criminals and this incident.

Based on his supposed past as an SAS instructor (how does one become an expert in that area as a civilian, anyways? Divorce court? The local Krav Maga school?) it seems far more likely to me that this might be some sort of a cleanup operation run by MI6 or perhaps an opposing intelligence agency to mop up loose ends from years past to ensure some previous operation isn't discussed after too many rum punches in a beach bar. This would explain the incident occurring at sea while he was alone, leaving his wife on another continent, safe and free from suspicion.

Unless she had a boyfriend with scuba gear...

[zboss]

That's my point. if it was a fire that caused the explosion then there should have been ample time to send a distress before the explosion, especially so if he had the time to launch a life raft and get ships papers.

If the explosion happened first and he survived, as it appears he did, then he would have still sent a distress. Obviously, he was not so gravely injured after such a blast since we was able to launch the raft and get ships papers, again leading to the conclusion that a distress could have been sent.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by zboss

That's my point. if it was a fire that caused the explosion then there should have been ample time to send a distress before the explosion, especially so if he had the time to launch a life raft and get ships papers.

If the explosion happened first and he survived, as it appears he did, then he would have still sent a distress. Obviously, he was not so gravely injured after such a blast since we was able to launch the raft and get ships papers, again leading to the conclusion that a distress could have been sent.

I don't know about ample time. If he was lighting the stove to prepare a spot of tea and the explosion completely disoriented him, (like flash bang grenades are designed to do) he might not have even thought about a distress call, plus if the fire was anywhere near the radio, he might not have been able to get near it.

I once experienced a BBQ explosion, and it was about an hour later before we realized that a large butane lighter had been left inside and exploded right when I opened the lid to put the meat on. Our initial response was disbelief and wonderment.

Anyways, it looks like he had the presence of mind to grab his go bag and inflate his life raft before abandoning ship. Tragic loss.

[s/v Beth]

Or the grab bag could have already been on the liferaft and the explosion that ejected him from the boat also ripped the liferaft from it. Or it could have been anywhere the explosion ripped through. Why else would it be burning? I am more in favor of a propane leak-explosion.
Which lead me to wonder- should I get rid of propane on my boat?

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Which lead me to wonder- should I get rid of propane on my boat?

What to replace it with? Kerosene?