Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by xymotic

As has been posted before, the ship may or may not be safer at sea, but the crew certainly wasn't.

I'd have to say the ship as well. If it had stayed in port I feel quite sure it would not be at the bottom of the harbor.

[Feral Cement]

"Yeah, we have leaks. Chesapeake Bay? No thanks - I'd rather ride out Frankenstorm."

70 mph winds, 3 story seas? Sounds like a hurricane to me!

When in doubt, don't go out.

[GaryMayo]

If they call it a hurricane fema cuts checks to people in need. If they call it a storm, fema takes the business class jets back to Washington and keeps the money.

Whatever it was, wish it had pushed some moisture towards the drought stricken areas of the Midwest.

[Tripod]

Originally Posted by carstenb

According to the article, the boat had been taking on water for 24 hours. They were also close to several major harbors where they would have been perfectly safe. Why did they not run for cover? Apparently they had a full day to do so.

In retrospect, they should not have left harbor. They did and failed to run for cover when faced with incurring water. Perhapsnthe leak was not serious at the start, but prudence would probably have dictated making for port.

I'm guessing they couldn't make for port when things started going seriously wrong. They were off Cape Hatteras going down wind in a square-rigger. Where would they run to? The only option was to go south, maybe to Charleston, but sadly, they didn't make it. Remember, most of the inlets on the east coast were treacherous at best during this storm.

[Captain Jeffry]

Interesting..

According to Doug Faunt, N6TQS, survivor and ship's electrician, the Bounty crew tried various methods to
call for help, including a satellite phone, “... we got nothing when tried calling out on HF.

We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there.

[Feral Cement]

Originally Posted by Captain Jeffry

According to Doug Faunt, N6TQS, survivor and ship's electrician, the Bounty crew tried various methods to

call for help, including a satellite phone, “... we got nothing when tried calling out on HF.

We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there.

So, in addition to taking on water, and with known issues to their pump and generator systems, they had no known operating communications system, and still passed by the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay 180 miles north, roughly 24 hours earlier? I am deeply sorry for the loss of life and a unique vessel, but I keep hearing a steady stream of bad decisions, the proverbial "cascade of events".

The Thursday and Friday before the storm, I moved my boat from Cape May to Norfolk. The weather was already breaking down late Friday. TWO DAYS LATER, Bounty sailed past the entrance towards a keyhole between Cape Hatteras and Frankenstorm. Unbelievable.

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by Captain Jeffry

Interesting..

According to Doug Faunt, N6TQS, survivor and ship's electrician, the Bounty crew tried various methods to
call for help, including a satellite phone, “... we got nothing when tried calling out on HF.
We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there.

On a five million dollar ship that is for sale, no radios that work? The storm did not knock out the coast guard radios, so the radios can't be blamed on the storm.

Can someone comment on no radios working. I understand it was the owner in Florida that finally called the CG ?

[xymotic]

My understanding is that the radios were functional but that they could not raise anyone, which might be expected on a rolling ship in 30' seas. They were able to send an email, I think it was sent via SSB/Pactor.

[sailronin]

No, that shouldn't be expected (radios out) unless the antennas blew away.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by Captain Jeffry

.... If this Captain did not have the 'right stuff' the insurance carrier would never have allowed him to be in command of this kind of vessel. ....

Hmm - does this reasoning also apply to, say, the captain of the 110,000 tonne Costa Concordia?

I'm not sure that the foibles of human beings are necessarily an open book to those who are expected to exercise oversight of their future actions.

..... Or maybe the insurance wallahs simply never saw that video !

[goboatingnow]

Any reading of this story inevitably leads to the conclusion, that a catastrophic error of judgement was made by the captain. Leaving aside other factors , like a ship already taking on water , undercrewed etc.

It's has been a commentary in general that such tall ships do not have the experience aboard similar to the days of sail and that proper command experience is missing by the simple fact that it is not in daily use. Couple with the fact these are replica vessels , well nuf said.

It's a salutary tale of believing you can beat the sea.


Dave

[btrayfors]

RE: radio communications....

I believe the occurrence was late at night and in the wee hours of the morning.

They were said to have tried the Maritime Mobile Net (14300 kHz) with no luck. Duh.....you would not expect to make a contact on 20m at that time of night, unless you were trying for Australia, maybe.

Obviously, they were panicked and/or had no real knowledge of HF radio.

The Coast Guard maintains a listening watch on the lower HF frequencies; that would have been more appropriate, as would any of the lower emergency or ham frequencies. Also, WLO (marine operator) maintains a listening watch on the lower frequencies at that time of night.

The radio was working, apparently, if they managed to make an email contact. If it was Pactor and they were using AirMail/SailMail, the frequency selector function would have led them to the lower frequencies and a successful contact.

Lesson: even if you have an excellent HF radio installation, you still gotta know some basics before you can use it effectively.

Bill
WA6CCA

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by GaryMayo

On a five million dollar ship that is for sale, no radios that work? The storm did not knock out the coast guard radios, so the radios can't be blamed on the storm.
Can someone comment on no radios working. I understand it was the owner in Florida that finally called the CG ?

I don't believe that the issue was the HF radio's not working as it was that there was no propagation (charged ionosphere) necessary to have the signal reflect off the atmosphere to the area they wanted to contact. VHF is line of site and the were too far away to do that.

Originally Posted by sailronin

No, that shouldn't be expected (radios out) unless the antennas blew away.

This might have been the case with the VHF antenna which is generally at the top of a mast. It is difficult to say when they lost their spars...before or after they called for help. The HF antenna could have been a random wire from the deck to the mast or a free standing whip on the rail.

Originally Posted by btrayfors

RE: radio communications....

I believe the occurrence was late at night and in the wee hours of the morning.

They were said to have tried the Maritime Mobile Net (14300 kHz) with no luck. Duh.....you would not expect to make a contact on 20m at that time of night, unless you were trying for Australia, maybe.

Obviously, they were panicked and/or had no real knowledge of HF radio.

The Coast Guard maintains a listening watch on the lower HF frequencies; that would have been more appropriate, as would any of the lower emergency or ham frequencies. Also, WLO (marine operator) maintains a listening watch on the lower frequencies at that time of night.

The radio was working, apparently, if they managed to make an email contact. If it was Pactor and they were using AirMail/SailMail, the frequency selector function would have led them to the lower frequencies and a successful contact.

Lesson: even if you have an excellent HF radio installation, you still gotta know some basics before you can use it effectively.

Bill
WA6CCA

So true...But I would hope their Engineer would have radio experience. At least basic. Even if radio propagation was poor, CW (code) can punch out much better than voice. (... --- ...)=SOS. N6FAI
So much for all the hoopla of no need for HAM radio onboard. Marine SSB would have been much more difficult to find anyone.

[GaryMayo]

Here is an interview with a captain of another tall ship

http://m.wistv.com/autojuice?targetU...mmunity-mourns

In this article, this captain says the Bounty captain was as good as they come. But was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Respectfully disagree with that mindset. It was not an issue if happenstance that sunk Bounty and took the life of an innocent crewmember.

Was it faulty judgment, possibly a videogame mentality? Aragance ? I can accept a leak that brought her down, but why was this ship and crew tested in this way? Tested until people paid with their lives.

[Dockhead]

Surely they had an EPIRB on board?!