Monohull in ARC sinks, everyone safe!

[four winds]

Originally Posted by The Way

Steve,

How would you drain the galley sink thru a long pipe run to above the waterline? I've considered seachests for intake and output, but your suggestion sounds different from that.

Thanks,
Jack

The water level in the stand pipe would be at the boat's waterline. Any water drained into the stand pipe would temporarily raise the level and then return to the waterline momentarily. Water seeks its own level.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Polux

I posted about it when it happened on the ARC thread with photos. That seems a bit silly to me because they have been experiencing problems with a considerable amount of water on the bilges before arriving to Las Palmas and it is dificult to understand why they had left without the problem sorted out.

Dear lord. I would call it a lot more than silly. It's borderline criminal given they had two children on the boat. You don't set out to cross the Atlantic with an unidentified and unmediated leak. They are extremely lucky that they were rescued as quickly as they were. Had it happened in the middle, 1400 miles from anywhere, the outcome would likely have been very bad.

Now, if they thought they had the problem fixed with a high degree of confidence, that would be another matter entirely. I guess there is the possibility that they did and that the leak they experienced underway was from an entirely different cause. I'll reserve judgement for if and when more information is released.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

Going over the side in open ocean like the Atlantic in anything but becalmed waters is like suicide for most mere mortals.



Also I don't see how a visual inspection from the outside would be more helpful if they don't have the capacity to find it inside. If you can't access it you can't plug it.

I have gone overboard in the warm Gulf to cut a line off of a prop years ago in about three ft waves, liked to beat me to death, the boat is bobbing up and down three feet, and your not, I don't think it would be possible in real waves.

[Jim Cate]

This sad example is evidence supporting my dislike of these mass sailing events. There is great pressure on skippers to depart on schedule, even if not racing, and this can (and quite possibly in this case did) lead to bad outcomes. More frequently it is leaving in weather you would not otherwise endure, but here not fully examining a known fault may have lead to the loss of the yacht, and the exposure of the family to a serious risk.

None the less, I'm awfully glad that they all were rescued.

Jim

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This sad example is evidence supporting my dislike of these mass sailing events. There is great pressure on skippers to depart on schedule, even if not racing, and this can (and quite possibly in this case did) lead to bad outcomes. More frequently it is leaving in weather you would not otherwise endure, but here not fully examining a known fault may have lead to the loss of the yacht, and the exposure of the family to a serious risk.

None the less, I'm awfully glad that they all were rescued.

Jim

Yes, the ARC schedule is intense...a circumnav in 15 months! Ive been in marinas when they came blasting thru.

But, they did organize an effective rescue.

[SV DestinyAscen]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This sad example is evidence supporting my dislike of these mass sailing events. There is great pressure on skippers to depart on schedule, even if not racing, and this can (and quite possibly in this case did) lead to bad outcomes. More frequently it is leaving in weather you would not otherwise endure, but here not fully examining a known fault may have lead to the loss of the yacht, and the exposure of the family to a serious risk.

None the less, I'm awfully glad that they all were rescued.

Jim

It isn't the ARC's fault but the personality of the person involved in making decisions. The ARC safety inspection had they been consulted about the bilge issue would have not recommended them to leave and sort it out. There's no penalty in doing so.

The german family simply has no sense.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

It isn't the ARC's fault but the personality of the person involved in making decisions. The ARC safety inspection had they been consulted about the bilge issue would have not recommended them to leave and sort it out. There's no penalty in doing so.

The german family simply has no sense.

I didn't say that it was the ARC's fault, not at all. It was a comment related to the mind set of participants in the event. Arc or no ARC, it is always the skipper's decision about the vessel being ready in all respects to go to sea. ALWAYS!

Jim

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I didn't say that it was the ARC's fault, not at all. It was a comment related to the mind set of participants in the event. Arc or no ARC, it is always the skipper's decision about the vessel being ready in all respects to go to sea. ALWAYS!

Jim

You're right, every ocean race or rally does have that pressure, and in races in particular it falls to the skipper to make a go/no go decision. It's a hard one to make after months of logistical and material preparation, often at significant expense. My boat pulled out of Newport to Bermuda this past year because the forecast was just too dicey, even though it turned out relatively fine. A bummer, but so it goes. Better safe than sorry.

But in a rally like the ARC, opting to leave when you're not fully ready is just stupid. You're right at the beginning of the good trades, arguably even a bit early, and you've got plenty of time to get things right before you go. Pushing to be at the start, with all it's pomp and pageantry, and not miss the big party in St. Lucia is tunnel-vision folly.

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Why do the sink and cockpit drains need to be below sea level? ours is just above the waterline at rest so can't leak when level and unattended. How does the loo flush?

Pete

Agreed, I have owned boats where the cockpit drains were below the waterline for no good reason when they could easily have drained straight through the transom, makes no sense. Most multihulls sink drains are above the static waterline so no seacock required, much safer, many monohulls could do the same. Really, with good planning only the intakes need to be below the waterline and they are much smaller than outlets typically.

Steve.

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by The Way

Steve,

How would you drain the galley sink thru a long pipe run to above the waterline? I've considered seachests for intake and output, but your suggestion sounds different from that.

Thanks,
Jack

Sinks drains don't need to drain below the static waterline. My current boat is a cat and the sinks drain well above the waterline so I just have hose and a through hull as it came from the builder, no seacocks. I have a composting toilet so no overboard discharge or intake. outboard so no intake through the hull. The single intake which I have mentioned before is a fresh water intake ( I'm in Lake Superior) which allows me to switch over from the water tanks for endless hot showers and dish washing etc once we are away from the harbor and into clean water. We drink and cook from water in gallon jugs from the supermarket. At present we strain but don't filter the water but I will be adding a filter at some point.

Steve.

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by nigel1

Problem with a long standpipe with no valve close to the hull, is that there is a real possibility of the water in the pipe freezing and splitting the pipe. With no valve close to the hull there is no way to stop the water ingress.

I sail in the great lakes where freezing is a real possibility but we are out of the water before that happens and the water just falls out of the pipe as soon as the boat is out of the water but you are right, if you sail in the high latittudes it may be problematic. I have sailed in below freezing air temperatures in the past but the water temperature is well above freezing, when the water temperature is around freezing we are well done sailing and out of the water.

Steve.

[arsenelupiga]

no one mentioned keel integrity failure and subsequent leak.

afraid to steer truth in the face that this is monohull achile point ? COnstant heeling tires mast/keel structure. Windward work accelerate this.

Basic physics here.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

no one mentioned keel integrity failure and subsequent leak.

afraid to steer truth in the face that this is monohull achile point ? COnstant heeling tires mast/keel structure. Windward work accelerate this.

Basic physics here.

I have never heard of an Aluminium boat with the keel welded up as part of the hull having a keel failure... have you?

You call it "basic physics", I call it unlikely.

Jim

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Once the water gets to a certain depth in the boat it is very difficult to find the leak. The water sloshing around masks the water flow into the boat. On boats with no real bilge sumps the water sloshes up the sides of the boat and will quickly take out all electronics and electrical systems. Not a good situation to be in.

Yes, and faced with a fast leak, should I take time to find the leak or get everyone off safely first? I choose the latter. I am guessing the skipper did too.

[DumnMad]

According to the report they were taken off the boat 4-½ hours after contacting ARC about their situation. The fast leak in this case was too fast for the hand pump to manage but not so fast as to cause a panicky abandonment. Would have been a fairly small hole or crack.