MSD Boarding in Florida

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

but the supreme court has never extended that right to other agencies.

If you would be so kind to bring it to their attention it would be appreciated.

I can't afford it.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by smj

All the thru hulls have been glassed in and no signs of plumbing running from the composting head. I've heard that the FWC in Florida still doesn't recognize it as a type III device.

I would venture to say that your unit is not a Type I, II, III, or XVIII - in fact, it is not an MSD under the law anymore than a bucket is. Of course, I wouldn't tell the officer that - too much for them to grasp. If would be a lot of fun though to see their reaction when they look at it and try to figure out how to deal with it. Probably worth the time and effort you put into installing it. In this case, I would say you get to have the last laugh.

[smj]

Originally Posted by osirissail

I would venture to say that your unit is not a Type I, II, III, or XVIII - in fact, it is not an MSD under the law anymore than a bucket is. Of course, I wouldn't tell the officer that - too much for them to grasp. If would be a lot of fun though to see their reaction when they look at it and try to figure out how to deal with it. Probably worth the time and effort you put into installing it. In this case, I would say you get to have the last laugh.

It looks like a big bucket but it is a registered type III coast guard approved marine sanitation device!

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by osirissail

I would venture to say that your unit is not a Type I, II, III, or XVIII - in fact, it is not an MSD under the law anymore than a bucket is. Of course, I wouldn't tell the officer that - too much for them to grasp. If would be a lot of fun though to see their reaction when they look at it and try to figure out how to deal with it. Probably worth the time and effort you put into installing it. In this case, I would say you get to have the last laugh.

How about a unit that looks like composter set above the real thing covering the through hulls and all?

[Unicorn Dreams]

And according to the Public Affairs Officer, who of course wasn't there, stated that the LEO's heard him opening drawers and lockers while being below decks on his own vessel, no mention that he was ordered on deck, so he was justified to be below decks.

The biggest untruth of the article is that the officers allegedly heard him opening and closing drawers and cabinets.

THAT'S ABSOLUTE BULLS^&T..

As an owner of a Gulfstar, in the cockpit of the boat tied up to the dock with the engine off, you can't here some one opening drawers and cabinets, much lest having the launch with it's engines running..
The forward head seacock is located under the starboard settee in full view of the cockpit with a drop down locker. The aft head seacock is under the sink with a sliding door.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Therapy

If you would be so kind to bring it to their attention it would be appreciated.

I can't afford it.

Actually we might just be in luck and not have to pay for it. The Obama administration is currently challenging a similar law in Arizona right now. If they win it should render all similar state laws illegal. The Florida law simply says that boaters in the state must be in compliance with federal law and gives local law enforcement the right to stop people for no cause what-so-ever and prove that they are in compliance with those laws. The Arizona illegal immigrant law says exactly the same thing. The administration contends that that the state of Arizona has no right to enforce federal laws. Other than that the only hope is that the ACLU would help us out, but we are probably not on their sympathy list.

Osirisail, You have some points, but the states authority over vehicles registered in other states is highly limited. For Instance, North Carolina requires an annual safety inspection to drive your car, Florida does not, yet that does not allow NC to post Law enforcement officers at the state border and ticket every Florida driver crossing the border. I would agree that Florida has the right to set requirements for vehicles registered in the state of Florida, but it does not have the right to set standards for vehicles registered in other states. The same should apply to boats. If I register my car in California I have to meet more strict pollution control standards, yet I am allowed to visit California in my car without retrofitting my car to those standards. Why should it be any different with boats?

[Chief Engineer]

I thought this Boarding/Gun/Poop/Anchoring/Interstate Commerce/Baby with the Bathwater thread would have been closed by now.

"Throwing out the baby with the bathwater" has an interesting origin.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Chief Engineer

I thought this Boarding/Gun/Poop/Anchoring/Interstate Commerce/Baby with the Bathwater thread would have been closed by now.

"Throwing out the baby with the bathwater" has an interesting origin.

You forgot FWC/Pirate in your list

[bljones]

Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams

As an owner of a Gulfstar, ...
The forward head seacock is located under the starboard settee in full view of the cockpit with a drop down locker. The aft head seacock is under the sink with a sliding door.

Waitaminnit, the anonymous capt. in question states, in his admission to cruisersnet, that " They are remotely located and accessible only to me. My crew has no knowledge of their location."

So, are the valves in question indeed hidden better than Dick Cheney during much of 2002, or are they in "full view" as Unicorn states?
On a material basis, it really doesn't matter, but if theanonymous capt. is fudging the truth about this fact, it makes me wonder what else isn't quite the truth.

I wonder if anonymous's real beef here isn't the boarding, but the fact that anonymous capt. got rightly ticketed for not having his valves locked and secured?

[Unicorn Dreams]

The forward head seacock, if you don't know where it is located is usually unknown to most people, as it is not located in the head, but in the main salon under the settee approximately 4-5' from the head. To access it, you open the forward locker under the settee., and lay on the cabin sole/
How many people know where the seacocks are on some one elses boat. As the forward head is above the waterline the water intake for the head is in the forward cabin.

They are not hidden, just not where you would expect them to be at..

[CSY Man]

For instance, when crossing the Gulf Stream to/from the Bahamas, especially at night, I make sure I have a functional VHF at the helm and all the folks on the boat are briefed that if a million-watt light suddenly illuminates the boat, nobody moves, nobody goes below, nobody comes up from below. The USCG or DEA or Customs boat will contact you and quiz you on all your documentation, ports of call and destination, etc. All that information needs to be at your fingertips - I have placards at the helm with all the documentation numbers, customs decal numbers, dates of birth, home address, etc.

All good advise and could certainly be important any time crossing the Gulf Stream between Florida and the Bahamas.

Having done the crossing 52 times the last 12 years I have been lucky:
No boarding, no hassle.
An occasional low flying CBP aircraft coming from behind to read name and hailing port, an occasional US Coast Guard cutter coming close to "sniff" at us and once a CBP fast boat approaching from behind in daylight within 6 feet with an automatic weapon ready while we were being questioned on destination/departure and other questions including what I did for a living...

No boarding yet by local LEO of any kind...Guess we look innocent, the boat is small and well maintained so they figure we have no money to spend on drugs and or fines for pooping overboard..

That being said.
According to an ex US NAVY Aircraft carrier sailor: The ship has no sanitation system and it all goes overboard un-treated, 5000 sailors and all.
Must be a brown river in the wake of those ships if it indeed is true...

Bet the red-neck sheriffs would be busy arresting them Navy ships with drawn weapons and tickets in hand..Show me your MSD or else..

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

. . . Osirisail, You have some points, but the states authority over vehicles registered in other states is highly limited. For Instance, North Carolina requires an annual safety inspection to drive your car, Florida does not, yet that does not allow NC to post Law enforcement officers at the state border and ticket every Florida driver crossing the border. I would agree that Florida has the right to set requirements for vehicles registered in the state of Florida, but it does not have the right to set standards for vehicles registered in other states. The same should apply to boats. If I register my car in California I have to meet more strict pollution control standards, yet I am allowed to visit California in my car without retrofitting my car to those standards. Why should it be any different with boats?

Basically that is exactly what I was trying to say. Except that each State does have the right to enforce its auto/vessel laws but to do so would create chaos, so all States have reciprocity agreements where any visiting car/vessel only has to comply with its home State laws and reg's. The really big "However" is that after about 90 days (some variation but most States go with the 90 days) continuously in the State you loose that reciprocity status and are now fully under the States laws/regs.
- - And it isn't any different for boats until you hit the 90 day limit. But most States have passed similar pollution laws/reg and as a visitor you are in InterState commerce so the Fed laws also kick in if you are stopped in "Fed water/ICW." The Fed's and States also have reciprocity agreements allowing States to enforce Fed law/regs on a specifically agreed basis. That is, some Fed or State laws/reg's can be enforced on Fed land/water by either the State or Fed officials. Example is the anti-nude beach laws especially in Florida.
- - But again, all of this is academic, in reality, the local or Fed can pretty much interpret the laws/reg's however the individual officer feels like subject to your lengthy and very expensive legal battle to assert your interpertation. They are using your tax money to fight you whereas you have to come up with your own money to assert your case. Example of this for cruisers is the Miami Beach anti-anchoring reg's. These local ordinances were clearly in violation of State law but boaters were told if they didn't leave they would be ticketed and have to hang around to go to court. Some who did hang around for the month or two or three got the citation thrown out but meanwhile they lost a month or more of the cruising season. This is a very common "local" tactic to achieve the local objective even when State or Fed level laws/reg's say it is okay for you to anchor.

[LakeSuperior]

It should be a felony for illegal local ordinances to be passed!

[Herbseesmoore]

I've got about 18 yrs in Florida and as a whole it sucks. Really. You have marine patrols from city, count,y state, USCG AND Customs. Is Homeland in a boat yet? We've been boarded 3 times in one day. Ridiculous. To board a boat while underway for poop is............. Ridiculous and dangerous. Did I say Florida sucks.
While looking to purchase we veiwed a marine patrol officers trimaran in Ft Lauderdale, he was a sheriff and he did not know what to call a cleat.
Theoretically you could be boarded 5 times a day forever in Florida. Putting yourself in a situation where you are pointing weapons at citizens so you can see where there poop goes..................Ridiculous. Really.
And that is why I like it here, its not Florida.
The USCG boarded us a few weeks ago and cannot say enough good things about their overall professionalism and even though my autopilot remote cord got stomped and doesn't work anymore, I always try to remember who I'm going to call when the Poop hits fan or my cabins full of water. Well it won't be the ghostbusters or the sheriff.

[zopi]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

A

That being said.
According to an ex US NAVY Aircraft carrier sailor: The ship has no sanitation system and it all goes overboard un-treated, 5000 sailors and all.
Must be a brown river in the wake of those ships if it indeed is true...

Bet the red-neck sheriffs would be busy arresting them Navy ships with drawn weapons and tickets in hand..Show me your MSD or else..

Untrue...The Navy must adhere scrupulously to federal discharge requirements..solid waste outside 3 miles...etc, ad nauseum...a Navy skipper allowing his vessel to create the kind of bad publicity that comes with a spill...is so screwed.