MSD Boarding in Florida

[CSY Man]

Untrue...The Navy must adhere scrupulously to federal discharge requirements..solid waste outside 3 miles...etc, ad nauseum...

So outside the 3 mile limit everything goes overboard then?

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Actually we might just be in luck and not have to pay for it. The Obama administration is currently challenging a similar law in Arizona right now. If they win it should render all similar state laws illegal. The Florida law simply says that boaters in the state must be in compliance with federal law and gives local law enforcement the right to stop people for no cause what-so-ever and prove that they are in compliance with those laws. The Arizona illegal immigrant law says exactly the same thing. The administration contends that that the state of Arizona has no right to enforce federal laws. Other than that the only hope is that the ACLU would help us out, but we are probably not on their sympathy list.

This is how leaving out one small details leads to a lot of misinformation being passed around on the internet. The challenge to the Arizona law applies only to the State enforcing Immigration Laws and will not affect any other laws, including boating regulations. And do keep in mind there is a difference in application and enforcement of laws verses regulations. Chuck

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

Thank god I live in Canada , where no such boarding is allowed, without a search warrant.I wouldn't even open my metal hatches for them. They lock like the doors of a vault.

I am no more a lawyer, than is Brent.

Notwithstanding, in Canada, a warrantless search may be conducted "in situations where exigent circumstances render it impracticable to obtain prior judicial authorization."

Some warrantless searches are specifically authorized by statute, if probable grounds exist.
For instance: Search of vehicle or boat
"... 32. (5) A police officer who has reasonable grounds to believe that liquor is being unlawfully kept in a vehicle or boat may at any time, without a warrant, enter and search the vehicle or boat and search any person found in it. R.S.O. 1990, c. L.19, s. 32 (5). ..."

Here ➥ Liquor Licence Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. L.19

Each province has similar provisions.

[osirissail]

Back to US Navy waste discharge systems - it seems from the US Navy documentation available on the internet that they do almost exactly what we cruisers do. The exception that they use very high temperature evaporators to remove water from the black waste tanks so a sludge is left. That is then discharged into the ocean or if inshore/docked pumped into land sewerage systems. Here is a diagram from a USN manual on the toilet system on a USN vessel. If you look closely it pretty much is the same as our cruising vessel system.

[Troubadour52993]

CSY Man: Yes, on US Navy ships, sewage goes overboard outside the three mile limit. On the designs I am familiar with, it is macerated to pump it over so there aren't any "floaters". There are holding tanks, (essentially a type III), for transiting the three mile limit until back in port and hooked up to sewage discharge but they aren't large and aren't intended to last for more than a few hours. If in a port with no sewage hookup, one ship I was on had an incinerator, but it always had an odor when it was burning. Another we had pump into honey dipper trucks if there wasn't sewage piping.

Cities dump millions of gallons of sewage during a heavy rain when their systems are overwhelmed, but the guys with the guns are only looking for the little guys. Every cruiser in the US could pump and dump for years if given the latitude that the city of Milwaukee dumps into Lake Michigan during an average rainfall year.

IMHO, there would be a lot more Type I treated sewage and compliance if it were allowed instead of only allowing no discharge, forcing people to deal with the holding tanks and "sneaking it" over the side untreated.

[smallyachts]

The main item in this that I have caught is that most of us do not have an issue with a reasonable request to check the MSD.

What most of us, including myself have a problem with is the method in which most local law enforcement in the state of FL interprets and abuses their authority to do so.

Once again, sitting around and complaining on a thread is not going to do a thing about it.

A concerted email campaign to contact any businesses that make their living from the boating industry in FL and bringing this to their attention would have a much greater impact on the local law enforcement agencies.

Especially when the Sheriff who is elected by the county residents understands that if he does not control his "loose cannons" he stands a much smaller chance of re-election.

This will also get the attention of the local county and city governments if a concerted effort is put forth to educate the voting public in their jurisdictions.

Politicians like to be re-elected, therefore they tend to listen to the loudest squeals, if the squeals are coming from the local business owners who pay local business taxes, it will drown out the folks that are complaining because of a cruiser anchoring in the backyard of some vocal residents condo.

Especially if the information is coming from "tourists", as in cruisers who threaten to bypass an area due to the abuse from the LEO.

BoatUS would be a good leader of this effort, if they can be brought on board.

Who on the thread have any contacts with BoatUS senior management?

They may in fact already have a list of businesses in FL that are in the boating industry.

[donradcliffe]

I think a little video of the officers' behavior would go a long way toward correcting the situation, ala Rodney King. Does the technology exist for us to video and upload to the internet before the gestapo can confiscate it??

[Troubadour52993]

There are apps, if you have a smart phone and connectivity, that upload your video as you are recording. A list of options to end the cop vs presumed guilty citizen debate:

How to Record the Cops - Reason Magazine

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I think a little video of the officers' behavior would go a long way toward correcting the situation, ala Rodney King. Does the technology exist for us to video and upload to the internet before the gestapo can confiscate it??

good reason to have security camera in cockpit. I will.

[smallyachts]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I think a little video of the officers' behavior would go a long way toward correcting the situation, ala Rodney King. Does the technology exist for us to video and upload to the internet before the gestapo can confiscate it??

Small video cameras, permanently mounted discretely, fed to a dvr in a locked location that you have to call someone to get the lock opened. Conveniently setup to upload video when you hit a panic button.

[AllezCat]

Boat US campaign is excellent idea.
Is there an emphasis on harassing foreign vessels?
Or are all flags treated equally?

[smallyachts]

That would be an interesting question to have answered. Do they target out of state/country vessels more often, as their is less chance of a local uproar from a transient?

You may even be able to get the FL tourism folks on board if it appeared they were preying on their target audience.

[AllezCat]

It's too easy and cheap to have at least a radio shack level system recording to laptop - automatically backed up to remote hard-drive(wireless in locker), and internet if available.
Would think local tax payers would not be impressed with their over-taxed dollars diverted to pooze poleeze, and local revenues being driven out of state/country.

[smallyachts]

Funny you should mention Radio Shack.

Add a couple of X10 capabilities and you pretty much have an off the shelf system.

I would put an enclosed PTZ camera somewhere up on the mast, so that there would be a birdseye view of the actual event so it should be showing the stern and aft 1/3 to 1/2 of the boat, probably recording to a dvr, as well as the rest of the camera's in the cockpit and down below, triggered by a panic button of some type and recorded as well.

[Herbseesmoore]

Try to stay focused, cruisers, this is not a thread about holding tanks, its a thread about LEO's pulling guns on cruising folks to see if they are discharging their poop correctly................... geeze.


There is a "town" in the Miami area made up of 18 mansions on an island, its called Indiansomethingortheother. They have their own marine patrol. If you get to close to the island he can stop you, believe me, I know.