New Anchor-out Law - Madeira Beach FL

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

This law will only be enforced when there's a complaint - and there will be complaints from the same condo building that got 100+ people to flood the meeting. Madeira Beach is a small town with part-time mayor and commissioners - that type of showing gets their attention.

This will blow-over in a few months. Anchor on the south side of the bridge. There is no condo on that side, and no one will care as long as you don't over-stay your welcome.

That's some good local information. Thanks!

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I'm not implying/opining - just offering some fact, which others might use, in part, to form opinions.

Fair enough, Thank you.

[flyingfin]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Anchoring is part of navigation. This law is for sure not enforceable under current state laws, but no doubt those will be changing.

Any local government can write laws and enforce them. If you get ticketed, then it will be your job - should you accept it - to hire an attorney and challenge it. Or pay the fine and move on. Quoting federal law or the constitution to Boat Cop Barney in these local towns will get you nowhere.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

Read the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution; it's pretty clear.

Control & title of submerged lands within a state's boundaries was officially recognized in 1953. The recent devolution has come about due to some people's reckless and irresponsible abandonment of vessels, and also the uptick of people who obtain a derelict vessel with no intent of using the vessel for 'navigating' the waterways.

I'm familiar with the 10th Amendment, thank you. I'm also familiar with federally imposed, by some means or another, minimum ages to buy cigarettes and alcohol, the federal ban on scheduled substances even if legal in a state, the federal "defense of marriage" act (thankfully defunct no thanks to the 10th amendment crowd) and we could go on and on about "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution" that are nonetheless exercised by the federal government and have withstood constitutional muster for decades or even centuries. It's a pendulum, and in reality like all of life a black and white interpretation is overly simplistic, but thanks for reinforcing my point that any type of federal standard or protest against patchwork local regulation faces an uphill battle.

[mvweebles]

I just checked - the Madeira Beach town website shows their boundaries. What's interesting is most of the anchorage - and the part closest to the condos - is outside of the town limits.

See Google Earth below
RED CIRCLE - anchorages near condo where villagers-with-pitchforks want the anchor outs gone
GREY CIRCLE - alternative anchorage off High School and VA. No one to complain there I suppose so should be fine for cruisers ('should' being the operative word).
YELLOW STAR - is the condo - outside of Madeira Beach
BLUE STAR - there are anchor-outs here, including the guy who's a disabled vet and who's wife is a waitress. He needs to move across the way, or other side of bridge.
ORANGE DASH LINE is the town limits. Google also shows the town limits.

Jurisdiction is indeed a problem. Wonder how this will work out.....

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

I would suggest that we simply criminalize poverty and put them all in prison or on chain gangs, but it seems we are well on our way there already. Just make sleeping outside a crime, eliminate any cheap housing via zoning laws and voila: problem solved. This process is nearly complete, all that remains is closing a few loopholes like boats and car or RV sleepers. The end result is that the poorest and the neediest are herded into a relatively few places which makes it easy to overlook and ignore them. Out of sight, out of mind. The system is working as designed and the results are as intended. Make the fines for minor violations high enough and the whole thing is nearly self-supporting.

Yet, perhaps there is a middle ground without clusters of derelict boats? Ya think?

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

Any local government can write laws and enforce them. If you get ticketed, then it will be your job - should you accept it - to hire an attorney and challenge it. Or pay the fine and move on. Quoting federal law or the constitution to Boat Cop Barney in these local towns will get you nowhere.

On occasion, a boater has gotten arrested purposely to challenge the anchoring law. Marco Island lawyer the best example. I personally was threatened with a "rough weekend in county jail" many years back on a Friday in Ft Myers Beach.

Doesn't make one feel to free.....

[cking]

We see this come up time and again but unfortunately this is conflicting with current state law. Link:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Relevant section:

(2) This chapter and chapter 328 do not prevent the adoption of any ordinance or local regulation relating to operation of vessels, except that a county or municipality may not enact, continue in effect, or enforce any ordinance or local regulation:

...

(f) Regulating the anchoring of vessels outside the marked boundaries of mooring fields permitted as provided in s. 327.40, except for:
1. Live-aboard vessels; and
2. Commercial vessels, excluding commercial fishing vessels;

Basically localities can only regulate anchoring of "live-aboard" vessels and commercial vessels. "Live-aboard" defined here:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

(22) “Live-aboard vessel” means:
(a) A vessel used solely as a residence and not for navigation;
(b) A vessel for which a declaration of domicile has been filed pursuant to s. 222.17; or
(c) A vessel used as a residence that does not have an effective means of propulsion for safe navigation.

This ordinance in Madeira seems it would only apply to transient anchoring and thus would not fall under the "live aboard" definition could not be regulated at that level. It sounds to me that some residents caused an uproar and they passed something that won't hold up to appease the mob.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Anchoring is part of navigation. This law is for sure not enforceable under current state laws, but no doubt those will be changing.

Do you have a cite for that.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I just checked - the Madeira Beach town website shows their boundaries. What's interesting is most of the anchorage - and the part closest to the condos - is outside of the town limits.

See Google Earth below
RED CIRCLE - anchorages near condo where villagers-with-pitchforks want the anchor outs gone
GREY CIRCLE - alternative anchorage off High School and VA. No one to complain there I suppose so should be fine for cruisers ('should' being the operative word).
YELLOW STAR - is the condo - outside of Madeira Beach
BLUE STAR - there are anchor-outs here, including the guy who's a disabled vet and who's wife is a waitress. He needs to move across the way, or other side of bridge.
ORANGE DASH LINE is the town limits. Google also shows the town limits.

Jurisdiction is indeed a problem. Wonder how this will work out.....

Attachment 205941

This supports what I was originally thinking. Lots of bark and not much bite.

[Ken Pole]

It strikes me (somewhat simplistically) that if offending boats can truly be identified as "derelict", the sundry governments involved should take legal action to seize them, acquire title and then, if practicable, auction them off. I concede that it can be more difficult than seizing abandoned motor vehicles but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Cadence]

This almost reads as though they want to discourage cruising boats. Where do you get a permit at 10PM when it's time for some rest. It might make sense to go to the next town and spend your tourist money. It would seem accommodating cruising boats would do more for their economy than that $5. I should think the local police or wildlife could readily spot and take some action against long term prior to them becoming derelict.

Maybe I have a simplistic view?

[hpeer]

^ Not simplistic. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Like securing your dingy, you need to make it easier to steal someone else’s. They want you to go away, so they make that alternative attractive.

I wonder if the police or other enforcement folks are authorized to sell you the permit?

Frankly what would/could happen if you just show up and drop anchor? They come out and tell you to move or get a permit? How do you get a permit if you can’t anchor to your ashore? How do you do it Sunday?

Silly law, meant as harassment.

[chiropaul]

This was a follow up to the controversy that appeared on the Passagemaker web site.
https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler...ng-regulations
May be a bit more current than the info presented here.

[hpeer]

^. Thanks for update. More reasonable.