New Anchor-out Law - Madeira Beach FL

[a64pilot]

I believe part of our existing Fl registration already goes toward the disposal of derelict vessels.
I also believe that for whatever reason people grossly underestimate the costs of disposal, my guess is that the costs are grossly inflated.

I also believe that like most all fees that are set aside for particular reasons, are in fact thrown into an general accounting fund and are spent on whichever Politician controls it for their pet projects.

But setting money aside to solve one problem or another sounds good to the voters

https://myfwc.com/boating/waterway/reporting/

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Agreed. This is absolutely the worst part of traveling by boat in Florida. Anchoring laws, potty police, high prices, crowds? All tolerable. But the absolute addict/criminals you're stuck next to in the anchorage that won't leave you alone are the worst part.

Often we imagine someone down on their luck rowing ashore to work. I rarely see this. I see people drunk or high 24/7, deciding not to work, yelling and screaming, floating junkyards, inoperable engines, no sails, achored by a thread.

Speaking of Madeira Beach, FL, we anchored there one year on our way to the Bahamas, among the derelicts a few years back (2010). After watching a couple of them kayak over and check our boat out like they were shopping, and then watching the police respond to a screaming domestic fight on one of the boats anchored near us, we decided it was time to keep on moving the next day.

No normal person wants to stay anchored in a town and visit and spend money, when that type of anchorage is there only option, other than a marina.

And, it is annoying, to pick out what looks like a good overnight anchorage on a trip, then get there, and see it completely filled with derelict, sinking, and sunk boats, with the derelict owners looking at your, and your boat, like they are looking at their next meal.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe part of our existing Fl registration already goes toward the disposal of derelict vessels.
I also believe that for whatever reason people grossly underestimate the costs of disposal, my guess is that the costs are grossly inflated.

I also believe that like most all fees that are set aside for particular reasons, are in fact thrown into an general accounting fund and are spent on whichever Politician controls it for their pet projects.

But setting money aside to solve one problem or another sounds good to the voters

https://myfwc.com/boating/waterway/reporting/

You mean like Soc. Sec.?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cadence

You mean like Soc. Sec.?

I don’t think that SS was ever intended to be set aside, not from the first day.
The first recipients got a free ride of course, since it has always been the working people that pay the Retirees bill.

In my opinion SS could easily support itself were it not robbed for other purposes, SS has expanded to well beyond its original intent I believe.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe part of our existing Fl registration already goes toward the disposal of derelict vessels.
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Someone the other told me that basically is all is going to this and other water maintenance stuff. But im not going to look it up.

I can say that there are a LOT less sunk and boats washed up on the shore here in Fl than 3 years ago. I bet once that is finished i bet they ramp up going after the unregistered delict boats. Hope when they them out that they pull the anchor crap attached to them up at same time.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t think that SS was ever intended to be set aside, not from the first day.
The first recipients got a free ride of course, since it has always been the working people that pay the Retirees bill.

In my opinion SS could easily support itself were it not robbed for other purposes, SS has expanded to well beyond its original intent I believe.

It was robbed and put into the general fund. I believe, the no. would never be used for identification, another joke.

[Hardhead]

As some have stated, if there is an actual salvage/scrap value from derelict sailboats - perhaps those unoccupied could be removed by private salvage contractors, at their own expense and profit. That method seems to work for junked and abandoned cars in a lot of areas. As far as people living permanently on derelict boats, perhaps setting up a regulation, whereby a boat can only be anchored in place for 7 days - and then must be moved at least mile away, and only allowed to return after 30 days - might be the best of the worst solutions. Junk boats having to move under their own power 4 times a month might weed out the true derelicts. Enforcement could be triggered by a citizen complaint. Personally, I'd rather see that regulation just about anywhere - when compared to having buy a 72 hour stamp.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by 33trippindaisy

Sounds like the true words of a Florida resident who probably does not like folks cruising or fishing in his waters or maybe he just has someone parking in his view. I don't know for sure here folks but he seems angry. Since I have fished in every State I have ever boated in, legally I might add, I only offer a simple and yes Legal solution. What I have suggested is very certainly legal, and my point is this: if the Fla cities want to try legal anchoring tactics, you fight back with locally legal tactics. Thats it. For me, its not an issue, I do fish, I like fishing at night, and I am going to fish in your backyard if I want too and it's Legal. Nothing personal unless it is for you, because for me the water is as much mine as it is yours.......free to use with Permits, as always. As a husband/wife team of career/retired LEO's I can assure you I am not being a smart arse, I am being a legal fisherman. It does sound to me that you in fact know I am right and therefore wish to demean me for sharing the wonderful news. Other than that my several hundred appearances in Court before the Judge's, assures me that if I am legal, and within my Rights, and highly respectful in my delivery.......well as usual, I will leave the Courtroom as the winner. Good luck to you Sir, with your enjoyment!

ps. The Law is written plainly in the FWC Fishing Regulations

Sounds like someone who cut class the day they taught law school.

In case you are unaware (seems like a safe assumption on my part given your previous posts) cities and counties are free to pass laws prohibiting fishing anywhere in their jurisdiction; and often do so. This is not the only area of the law you seem to be unaware of.

Not to mention your ignorance of what is driving this issue in Florida. There is a serious and increasing problem with what some describe as a virtual homeless population living on boats. Truth be told many of them are on some type of government assistance or support themselves with petty crime. Given the high cost of housing on land they live on floating shacks (some of them are literally just that, a plywood shack on top of a beat up pontoon boat). My experience has been that half of what I will call real boats (as opposed to shacks built on something that floats) have no means of self propulsion and are slowly deteriorating.

The result has been a build up of junk boats incapable of moving unless it is dragging their anchors, or drifting if the anchor line breaks. Often times this results in the boat being damaged and sinking. Problem is that by this time the boat is basically worthless from the stand point of salvage and removal may be problematical due to structural and environmental issues associated with the boat. To make matters worse this all seems to be happening in places close to the big population centers with resulting bad PR.

I get it that many legit cruisers are caught up by this. But I still stand by my claim that more rules are coming and they will be more intrusive than what exists now.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Sounds like someone who cut class the day they taught law school.

In case you are unaware (seems like a safe assumption on my part given your previous posts) cities and counties are free to pass laws prohibiting fishing anywhere in their jurisdiction; and often do so. This is not the only area of the law you seem to be unaware of.

Not to mention your ignorance of what is driving this issue in Florida. There is a serious and increasing problem with what some describe as a virtual homeless population living on boats. Truth be told many of them are on some type of government assistance or support themselves with petty crime. Given the high cost of housing on land they live on floating shacks (some of them are literally just that, a plywood shack on top of a beat up pontoon boat). My experience has been that half of what I will call real boats (as opposed to shacks built on something that floats) have no means of self propulsion and are slowly deteriorating.

The result has been a build up of junk boats incapable of moving unless it is dragging their anchors, or drifting if the anchor line breaks. Often times this results in the boat being damaged and sinking. Problem is that by this time the boat is basically worthless from the stand point of salvage and removal may be problematical due to structural and environmental issues associated with the boat. To make matters worse this all seems to be happening in places close to the big population centers with resulting bad PR.

I get it that many legit cruisers are caught up by this. But I still stand by my claim that more rules are coming and they will be more intrusive than what exists now.

Being such a smart guy I'm sure you realize that Florida already has a law on the books that can deal with these vessels you describe. They are called derelict vessels and they are subject to being seized by the FWC. and as we speak they're working on the new law to determine at-risk vessels. If dealing with these boats is truly the goal they already have laws on the books that would facilitate that they just need. Enforcment

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

As some have stated, if there is an actual salvage/scrap value from derelict sailboats - perhaps those unoccupied could be removed by private salvage contractors, at their own expense and profit. That method seems to work for junked and abandoned cars in a lot of areas. As far as people living permanently on derelict boats, perhaps setting up a regulation, whereby a boat can only be anchored in place for 7 days - and then must be moved at least mile away, and only allowed to return after 30 days - might be the best of the worst solutions. Junk boats having to move under their own power 4 times a month might weed out the true derelicts. Enforcement could be triggered by a citizen complaint. Personally, I'd rather see that regulation just about anywhere - when compared to having buy a 72 hour stamp.

As a rule it costs more to scrap a boat than it is worth. Key West is the hot spot for lots of things and had hearings about just how long a boat could anchor before proving it could move under it's own power.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by tomfl

As a rule it costs more to scrap a boat than it is worth. Key West is the hot spot for lots of things and had hearings about just how long a boat could anchor before proving it could move under it's own power.

Yes
This is what I was referring to I went to one of the hearings last year

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by motion30

Being such a smart guy I'm sure you realize that Florida already has a law on the books that can deal with these vessels you describe. They are called derelict vessels and they are subject to being seized by the FWC. and as we speak they're working on the new law to determine at-risk vessels. If dealing with these boats is truly the goal they already have laws on the books that would facilitate that they just need. Enforcment

Florida also has a law that makes it very time consuming, expensive, and in general almost impossible to remove those boats.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Florida also has a law that makes it very time consuming, expensive, and in general almost impossible to remove those boats.

I do not believe that to be true I am currently in Key West and have seen multiple vessels tagged as derelict and the owner fined. You can make repairs and able to recover the boat but it must be removed from Florida waters first.

[smbdyiam2]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Town of Madeira Beach FL on ICW near St Petersburg recently passed a statute greatly restricting anchoring.

Cliff-Note version:

• Boat must get a $5 permit
• Good for 72-hours
• Cannot leave boat for more than 8-hours
• Only one permit per 30-day period

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/ne...-aboard-boats#

This is what I first read. It was not about abandoned boats or derelicts, just about anchoring where some one might see you. With out paying city a fee. If they don.t like your looks get towed away.
I don't like abandoned boats. Long story big cost . but if this boat is paying for it's license and tags and passes safety inspections What's the problem. LOOKS? Bad law. Lee

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by motion30

I do not believe that to be true I am currently in Key West and have seen multiple vessels tagged as derelict and the owner fined. You can make repairs and able to recover the boat but it must be removed from Florida waters first.

If you read the article it is clear in the cases mentioned the cost of scrapping exceeded the value of the boat. I have seen plenty of boats in the Keys that are basically worthless. After Irma there were probably a thousand boats that were scrapped and the salvaged parts did not cover the cost of scrapping.