One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

[Kettlewell]

I'm not going to argue that we shouldn't follow the law, but I will have to point out that boaters have nothing to do with water pollution. Every scientific study done indicates that the significant sources of water pollution are land runoff, septic systems, and inadequate land sewage treatment. Words are often added to the effect that it would be nice to get boaters to not dump too, but there is no evidence that it is of any consequence. I carefully read one scientific study made several years ago about a popular marine harbor in SE Massachusetts. The study originators set out to show that pleasure boaters were polluting the harbor so they set up water quality monitoring points both inside and outside a very large marina in the harbor, then they made measurements throughout the year. Based on rainfall inland they could detect large swings in bacteria etc. because of all the land runoff, overflowing septic systems, etc., but even when they measured the water in the marina on the weekend of July 4th, at the peak possible usage, no bacteria could be measured that could be attributed to boats. Yet in the conclusion, the study said something about it being critical that boaters be monitored for pumpouts etc. Of course, nearby municipalities routinely discharge huge volumes of pollutants during storms etc. I once calculated that a single one of these events was more sewage than could possibly be generated by every registered boat in the area over the course of 1000 years!

[bljones]

Oh, ferpetesakes, just don't dump your load where you moor/dock/anchor/. Is consideration for others really that big a deal, that great an imposition, or that egregious an infringement of your "rights"? Perhaps ou can show me in the Constitution, the Magna Carta, or the Bible, where you have the right to dispose of your waste wherever you want to? Come on, even your dog knows enough not to defecate where it eats, and yet some here are insinuating that it should be okay for them to empty their heads where others cast their fishing lines, and allow their kids to swim. Come on.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by bljones

Oh, ferpetesakes, just don't dump your load where you moor/dock/anchor/. Is consideration for others really that big a deal, that great an imposition, or that egregious an infringement of your "rights"? Perhaps ou can show me in the Constitution, the Magna Carta, or the Bible, where you have the right to dispose of your waste wherever you want to? Come on, even your dog knows enough not to defecate where it eats, and yet some here are insinuating that it should be okay for them to empty their heads where others cast their fishing lines, and allow their kids to swim. Come on.

It's the first lesson that fledgelings learn: don't foul the nest.

Can't figure out why it's so hard for humans to learn the same lesson.

[Kettlewell]

I don't think anyone here is arguing for dumping waste, just arguing against intrusive government officials boarding our boats to put dye tablets in the toilet. I used to have a holding tank, but it was such a pain in the neck that I switched to a composting toilet that solves the problem nicely. Even in very busy marine areas I found that it is hard to get a pumpout due to 1. broken equipment 2. unhelpful marina folks who don't want to be bothered 3. getting chased off the dock because a bigger boat wants to fuel 4. a line up at the one working pumpout etc. Cruising World once published an article about trying to find a working pumpout station in Narragansett Bay. They ended up searching all day. My favorite was the modern pumpout station in a major harbor in Maine that had a big pipe that ended before it reached shore so that after you paid to have your boat pumped it sprayed out under the dock into the harbor. It wasn't broken, there just wasn't any connection to shore. It was this way for years, though it may be fixed now. Obviously the local officials weren't too concerned with boat effluent.

[Mardav]

Originally Posted by dacust

I had an original install LectraSan on my 1966 Pacemaker. It was still working fine when I sold it in 2005. They are not legal in "no discharge" zones, though. But they are legal, even in marinas, in most locations. However, don't expect local authorities to understand this. You may have to show them documentation for proof. When you through terms around like "It's an approved Type I sanitation device", and point out that the regulations say specifically "untreated sewage" then they start backing off. Sometimes.

Note: Many people think they have a properly working LectraSan because they don't smell anything. However, it is important to replace the electrodes to really know they are being effective. I venture to say that only a small percentage of them are really working at proper levels.

EDIT: I should have said that for power conscious sailboaters, this is not a good option. Along with your sewage, it also sucks power.
EDIT2: Also, it is really only viable for raw saltwater intake. It uses the salt in the water for conductivity in the water to basically electrocute any living organism. For fresh water use, you must use a salt injector.

-dan

Dan,
I have fresh water flush heads and the Electoscan unit for my boat uses the Purisan treatment unit which uses a separate canister with chlorine tablets rather than the salt tank, it is smaller and easier to use. My system is called 'Hold 'n Treat' and periodically pumps and treats the holding tank contents to Type I standards, all automatically. Incidentally, the boats' waste is treated to a higher standard (less bacteria) than many of the municipalities around me which dump their treated waste water in the ocean. The whole system for my boat (not including the holding tank which I already had) was less than $1,500. If you dye the flush water in my boat eventually it will show up as the treatment system does not effect the dye.
If you show your Type I plaque and certificate to the boarding authorities it should be sufficient, also you can request an inspection by the local Coast Guard (and it is a GC regulation) who in our case will give you a 'travel letter' stating your system is an approved type. Still no discharge is permitted of course in no discharge areas.
There is no odor from the holding tank or system whatsoever on our boat.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by foggysail

Does the city have the legal authority to board someone's boat and pour a dye substance into his/her head???

I understand that this process is common in lakes but there is a big difference in a lake AND the ocean.

This smacks of big government!!!

Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!

[Bulldawg]

Wow!! This thread has been enlightening. First off I am right wing, conservative, Christian, redneck, backwoods all of the stuff most people think that not environmentalist, but to think that boaters actually dump in a harbor/marina or even close to shore is amazing. The Clean water act has some crazy stuff in but also some good ideas as well. Many of them we have implemented on or farm (we don't even let the cows crap within fifty feet of water). I also have a porta-potty business and we are very restricted as to our operations. The ones we use are very "green" and use natural enzymes, would these work in a holding tank to keep odor down on a boat. They work good in a toilet for about depending on use and temp for about a week, after that it goes downhill fast. Also, are there companies that provide pump out service in marinas?

[Capt Phil]

Bulldawg, Sarafina and Bljones along with many others have it right IMHO... Our waters, whether inland waterways, fairways or ocean bays are our home. However we chose to dispose of our waste should respect that. Politically, I'm a little right of Attila the Hun but when it comes to soiling my environment, I won't do it and God help anyone else who does it that I'm aware of. I've been appalled at the types of 'facilities' I've seen on vessels I've delivered and have made the owners aware of deficiencies noting their exposure to USCG citations if they don't correct them in US waters. I've even demanded that vessels are brought into compliance coming from outside the US before I agree to a delivery. For the most part, owners are only to happy to make the needed upgrades, many times not even being aware there was a problem. All it takes is respect for our environment, a little education and a desire to treat our part of the ocean/ lake like our home, which it is... just my opinion! Capt Phil

[hellosailor]

I wonder...watercops versus higher powers? Just tell 'em you require an MSDS for all chemicals brought on board the vessel, to go back and fetch the MSDS on those little tablets before they bring them aboard your boat. OSHA, liability, medical allergies and sensitivities...there must be some way to pass the karma back. MSDS statements exist among other things to make sure of proper response to chemical spills. And if they're gonna SPILL that chemical through your boat and into the waterway....Seems reasonable to require them to produce the MSDS sheet for it. <WEG>

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bulldawg

...are there companies that provide pump out service in marinas?

Of course there are. In addition to the marina pumpout stations. There is zero excuse for pumping overboard. Yet there are still plenty here who do it and then rationalize their actions with that tired old bullsh*t argument that municipalities regularly release sewage into our waterways. As if that makes OK for them to do it too.

[Tom Bates]

Originally Posted by hummingway

My joker flap gave out and I decided to go with the Natures Head. Taking the head out was no big deal. I had to cut out the platform for the head and put in a new section of floor so the new head was a comfortable height - they are quite tall and I had no room for a foot rest. I then waited for a month or so to let the lines dry a bit before removing the tank and hoses. It wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm extremely glad I did. As a live aboard the old tank was my nightmare. I haven't found the NH to be free of odour however. It takes management and care not to overflow the urine catchment. On the other hand the smell is never in the cabin because I keep the door to the head closed. If urine has gotten into the tank the smell out the vent gets strong or if you don't have the right amount of desicant (to much or to little) the smell can be noticeable. Nine months of living aboard and I pretty much had the management down though occasionally when someone else wa aboard had the urine tank overflow. Lesson there is empty twice a day no matter what!!!

Put an aquiaram air pump on your holding tank and run it 24 hrs a day and you get no smell. Tugboattom

[lorenzo123]

Within a marina, a city or other governemental agency has the right if the berth agreement and marina rules stipulate these conditions (and usually do, just as they also require insurance). You might have ground to argue against actual boarding, but a vessel's owner is bound by the contract that they sign. In my experience (ten years in the industry), there is always a more than marginal percentage who would dump overboard if no rules were in place.

Marinas, at least in California, are increasingly under pressure to maintain clean water; e.g., in California, the Dept. of Pesticide Regulation (DPR) has for years been advancing an anti-copper campaign, and in a few years copper bottom paint will be a thing of the past. And then there's the Coastal Commission and, in the Bay Area, the BCDC, who have been ardent at times to retard "water shadow" from an increase in berths.

Addressing the issue of city-maintained waterways, citys (and other and other agencies) are obligated to maintain channels within their property lines, and many do; e.g., dredging at San Francisco Marina, Santa Cruz Marina, as well as San Mateo Harbor District facilities (Oyster Pt. and Pillar Pt.). The ACOE doesn't have the funds nor is obligated to maintain these, as far as I know, unless shipping lanes are involved.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by joey69

Storm drains and Sewer drains are not connected.They are separate systems.

Not in Seattle...

[lorenzo123]

RE: Storm drains. In SF (and other older citys), storm drains and raw sewage do connect when the system is inundated with rain water. SF has a system of waste and storm drains that are separated by weirs. The top foot or so is connected to handle heavy storms (of which we get more than occasionally--in 2000 something it rained so much that the runoff from the hills forced trapped air in the system to blow manhole covers a good 8 or so feet into the air. This I witnessed driving to work). Of course, this system was devised a hundred years ago and would cost a bazillion boat bucks to fix.

[lorenzo123]

RE smell: you could try using a little waste tank fluid, and spray your head with white vinegar.