Sad end to an Irwin 52 in Panama City Bch bay

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by acem

Did anyone find out what happened to the boat?

If the sheets jam in such a situation you take your knife and cut them. However its unlikely both the Genoa and mizzen sheets both jammed at the same time.

Thx-Ace

Sailing seems like horseback riding in the sense that when I was riding regularly, one of my instructors told me to always be able to put my hands on a knife exceedingly quickly. (I.e. if it is not on your person you’d better know exactly where it is and be able to grab it fast.)

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

Sailing seems like horseback riding in the sense that when I was riding regularly, one of my instructors told me to always be able to put my hands on a knife exceedingly quickly. (I.e. if it is not on your person you’d better know exactly where it is and be able to grab it fast.)

Only catamarans can be flipped by the wind. A monohull not, only big waves can do that.

I expect that it flooded because of a hull breach, failed plumbing etc.

[MicHughV]

I've been on some boats that the head sink fills when heeled over...keep that up, you could sink the boat....same goes for toilet......rough seas can fill a toilet bowl...I've seen it happen...
I was on a trip once on a boat that had a loose hatch over the forepeak....every wave that hit would send gallons of water below...

I'm damned if I know why we do it......

[Frankly]

I have been caught out in a St Andrews Bay in a 60 knot squall (sails furled) not a lot of fun. The day that Irwin went down looked more like 90 knots or better (though Hurricane Michael was back). At the dock Cbreeze was heeled over good 30 to 40 degrees. News reports indicated that a small tornado struck in that area. Tornado and sailboat, bad ju ju.

I have asked around, nobody seems to know exactly why she went down, sh## happens.


Frankly

[rslifkin]

On the issue of power draw for big bilge pumps, yes, they need a lot of juice. But they shouldn't need it for all that long. Alarm goes off, pumps go on. Crew finds source of water and fixes it as best they can. Pumps remove extra water, then turn off.

They're not expected to run for long periods in most situations. If they are, then assuming it's usable and not the source of the issue, get an engine or generator running to keep the batteries up.

Clogging is a bigger issue, but a clean bilge, staggered pump placement and a bit more pumping capacity than you really need will generally mitigate that enough.

[hpeer]

Get engine running, that’s another issue.

If you get water high enough then the alternator will get wet and crap out.

I carry a 110VAC sump pump with a flex hose. It’s made for a house basement. My idea is that I can plug it into the inverter, as high as the batteries, and get some serious pumping going pretty quickly. Sort of a poor mans crash pump.

But it would need the engine to run for any longish period of time.

Back to sinks and toilets flooding on heel. If the through hills are readily accessible, as the should be, then turn them off except for use.

We saw a boat partially sink at anchor because a sink through hull started to leak. Fortunately good a samaritan ashore saw her down on her lines, and going rather quickly, and boarded the boat, and shut off the through hull. But not before she was down quite too much. At anchor.

But I’ve also known of a boat sinking on the hard. Blocked cockpit drains and lots of rain.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Get engine running, that’s another issue.

If you get water high enough then the alternator will get wet and crap out.

I carry a 110VAC sump pump with a flex hose. It’s made for a house basement. My idea is that I can plug it into the inverter, as high as the batteries, and get some serious pumping going pretty quickly. Sort of a poor mans crash pump.

But it would need the engine to run for any longish period of time.

That comes back to the reason for the really big pumps. Keep the water from getting high enough to cause systems failures while you resolve the leak.

The big sump pump is a good idea and I've been looking at electric trash and sump pumps to run from my generally in an emergency. 6.5kw generator and I've got a 30a outlet from it, so that could power a pretty big pump for use on my boat or someone else's.

[ohdrinkboy]

I've thought about something like the below as a contingency. Already would have fuel for the dinghy, and easily transferable if need to help someone.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...5735_200585735

[hpeer]

One afternoon the marina launched a boat. I forget exactly why but they did it without the owner present, but with his permission.

That evening someone noted she was down on her lines. Mad panic at the dock. Marina calls the fire department to bring over a gas driven dewatering pump. Great idea, EXCEPT it would not fit down the companion way. Glub, glub, down she goes. Apparently it did not have a pick up hose. Or one long enough. I didn’t see, just relating the story.

Owner had taken the impeller out and not closed the through hull, so when launched she sank.

I wasn’t there or I would have brought over my sump pump with an extension cord and earned a free case of beer.

[MicHughV]

in my particular event....the diesel engine in the boat was positioned quite low....the lower half of the engine, including the starter, was submerged....

after all the water was pumped out, I used compressed air from a dive tank, to blow everything out of the starter, and against all odds, I could start the engine...but that was the the second to last time I could use the starter....it was a comedy of errors....just one thing after another...I shudder to recall it all...

a bilge alarm....which I did not have at the time, would have averted a lot of drama...but rest assured....it's # 1 on my list these days...

[mcarthur]

Careful with pump sizing too - a 2" hole 3' below the waterline (e.g. engine) will let in 139 gallon a minute (8,300gph). If you go by the advice above and size to 50% of max ability of the pump, you need a 16,000gph pump for one through-hull.

Now the whale/shipping container that passed along your underside has just pulled out three of them. Does anyone have that amount of pumping? Oh, and that's just keeping up with ingress, so needs to work every second until you can stop or decrease the water somehow!

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Only catamarans can be flipped by the wind. A monohull not, only big waves can do that.

I expect that it flooded because of a hull breach, failed plumbing etc.

I was just referring to general risks - any kind of sailing vessel has a lot of lines and ropes and so on around for people and things to get tangled up in or caught by. In normal activity everything should of course be nice and tidy and no issue, but that’s the case with horses as well. The knife is for when something goes wrong and you can’t free things the normal way.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

Sailing seems like horseback riding in the sense that when I was riding regularly, one of my instructors told me to always be able to put my hands on a knife exceedingly quickly. (I.e. if it is not on your person you’d better know exactly where it is and be able to grab it fast.)

I always keep a good sawing-type blade in a sleeve mounted by the companionway - plus I always have my leatherman or myerchin multutool on my person (somewhere!) when underway.

LittleWing77

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by mcarthur

Careful with pump sizing too - a 2" hole 3' below the waterline (e.g. engine) will let in 139 gallon a minute (8,300gph). If you go by the advice above and size to 50% of max ability of the pump, you need a 16,000gph pump for one through-hull.

Now the whale/shipping container that passed along your underside has just pulled out three of them. Does anyone have that amount of pumping? Oh, and that's just keeping up with ingress, so needs to work every second until you can stop or decrease the water somehow!

There will always be an extreme case you can't plan for. But on a lot of boats, the biggest hole is easier than that to keep up with. Mine, for example is a 1.5 inch prop shaft almost 2 feet under. Engine intakes are similar depth, but only 1.25 inch.

[acem]

Alot of that part of the gulf of Mexico is very shallow but I'm unfamiliar with Panama city bay. Could she have hit bottom and broke the keel loose? Thx-Ace