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Littlechay · 24-05-2014, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve1944

How do YOU get your charts?

I don't know where you are Steve, but it's illegal to even photocopy charts in most parts of the world let alone sail with them! Exceptions that I know of are; USA, Brazil, Argentina, and New Zealand where the government allows free distribution of the data. Everywhere else (with a couple of exceptions that I don't know about I expect) do not allow free distribution of the data.

I have honest charts, yes I actually paid for them, on MaxSea. I buy the occasional paper chart, rarely use a photocopy unless its one for an area I am sure will not have changed much or is up to date. I'm not a prude but I like to have the best charts I can get my hands one. Where none are available I make my own mud-maps if I think I'll come back I put a bit more effort into it

SimonV · 24-05-2014, 16:50

Copy right law can be confusing. But it would seem that when a chart is photocopied in black and white and is then stamped with words such as, for your consideration and not to be used for navigation it gets around the law but is a very Grey area. Normal cost around $5.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Steve1944 · 24-05-2014, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonV

Copy right law can be confusing. But it would seem that when a chart is photocopied in black and white and is then stamped with words such as, for your consideration and not to be used for navigation it gets around the law but is a very Grey area. Normal cost around $5.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Interesting. I'm new to all this, so please dont think of my comments as an argument.

I spoke to the guy at NOAA about charts. He said they are free, you just have to download them to your liking

You can download them onto your computor or to a 'large' printer. I guess I translated that as a copy machine, and I'm sorry.

His recommendation was to a particular print company because he liked their paper better, but qualified his comment on that as a persoanl opinion and not a recommendation.

I really don't know what I 'm talking about. This scotch is very, very good.

Steve

Littlechay · 24-05-2014, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve1944

I spoke to the guy at NOAA about charts. He said they are free, you just have to download them to your liking

Quite right if NOAA charts cover your area in useful detail. You can only download whole usable charts from NOAA for the US there are various fudges around to grab screens from the online chart-viewer for the rest of the world but that's just a PITA.

People do photocopy charts, but somebody has to buy them in the first place. In some countries copy shops simply refuse to copy charts.

Mostly moot anyway as lots of people only use Electronic charts these days so I suspect the wholesale photocopying has gone out the window and folk settle for exchanging USB sticks.

I like to carry at least enough paper charts to get me into the major ports along my route, coming in from the ocean you rarely need very much pilotage for that and that is where the sailing directions become very useful. Downloadable for free for the whole world from NOAA

Steve1944 · 24-05-2014, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Littlechay

Quite right if NOAA charts cover your area in useful detail. You can only download whole usable charts from NOAA for the US there are various fudges around to grab screens from the online chart-viewer for the rest of the world but that's just a PITA.

People do photocopy charts, but somebody has to buy them in the first place. In some countries copy shops simply refuse to copy charts.

Mostly moot anyway as lots of people only use Electronic charts these days so I suspect the wholesale photocopying has gone out the window and folk settle for exchanging USB sticks.

I like to carry at least enough paper charts to get me into the major ports along my route, coming in from the ocean you rarely need very much pilotage for that and that is where the sailing directions become very useful. Downloadable for free for the whole world from NOAA

I seriously didn't know about this, and I'm glad to become informed.

I haven't bought my boat yet, and doing a lot of planning and investigating. I was informed that there's a lot more than just buying a boat and casting off, but this chart thing is new to me.

Thanks a ton.

S

CarinaPDX · 25-05-2014, 01:21

The NOAA charts covering US waters are copyright-free. But the charts of other nation's waters sold by the US are typically based on that nation's charts and do have a copyright. So if you have a copy of a US chart of British waters based on the British data then you are violating crown copyright, and risk getting into trouble if caught. OK, so don't get caught I suppose.

Copyright law is confusing, but I doubt that anyone would consider a B&W copy being used for navigation a "fair use". I for one wouldn't want to argue that with HM Customs. But hey, let us know how it works out for you...

A lot of folks rely on C-Map cm93 for their world charts. Pirated copies that is. Fine to have but I wouldn't be showing them to any officials - they are likely to take the computer with the charts. With the pressure the US puts on other nations about [software] piracy and IP protections it would not do for an American to get caught breaking the laws in a foreign country - they will love to show the US how committed they are to enforcing the law (same with drugs BTW).

Greg

**Jim Cate** · 25-05-2014, 01:34

FWIW,

In my experience, essentially 100% of the long term cruising fleet have at least some photocopied charts on board. Collectively, we have encountered a vast host of officials in our travels. I have NEVER heard of anyone being questioned about such charts, let alone prosecuted.

If it bothers one ethically to use them, fine. There seems to be no realistic danger of legal consequences for their use. Very gradually countries are falling into line re this issue,and making their charts available for copy, by paper or by electronic means... a very good trend IMO. The costs of one SAR mission likely offset all the profits from chart sales, and we all know that having accurate charts is one important part of not being the subject of a SAR.

Jim

**boatman61** · 25-05-2014, 01:42

Never, in any country have I been inspected for safety gear (flares etc), photo-copied charts or the source of my CM93 charts... have however had all my food confiscated.. however one thing I'll agree on.. third party insurance is requested/required in every clearing in port.

Littlechay · 25-05-2014, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Never, in any country have I been inspected for safety gear (flares etc), photo-copied charts or the source of my CM93 charts... have however had all my food confiscated.. however one thing I'll agree on.. third party insurance is requested/required in every clearing in port.

Inspections are a fairly regular occurrence in southern South America. Flares, Liferaft, lifejackets, etc.. all in date. Adequate charts and I know of one case where the validity nav software licence and charts was checked ). More than third party insurance has been a requirement in Chile for the last few years; you require pollution clean-up and rescue insurance as well as TP. Many cruisers present a faked policy but in at least one case this got them into trouble later...

Oh and the food police are rigorous !

**Dockhead** · 26-05-2014, 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Littlechay

Mostly moot anyway as lots of people only use Electronic charts these days so I suspect the wholesale photocopying has gone out the window and folk settle for exchanging USB sticks.

This is a bit of thread drift, but I am sailing in the Baltic without paper charts, and it is awful! Despite having excellent chart plotters and up to the minute updated Navionics Gold charts, plus INavX on an IPlod. It is so rocky here, you just can't figure out a rational course through the rocks without seeing the whole picture at once and laying a protractor on it. This is impossible with a plotter, since you can only see the detail at a closer zoom than what allows you to see the whole route.

So I am really suffering.

I suspect that people who sail without paper charts sail in simpler waters than these.

Littlechay · 26-05-2014, 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This is a bit of thread drift, but I am sailing in the Baltic without paper charts, and it is awful! Despite having excellent chart plotters and up to the minute updated Navionics Gold charts, plus INavX on an IPlod. It is so rocky here, you just can't figure out a rational course through the rocks without seeing the whole picture at once and laying a protractor on it. This is impossible with a plotter, since you can only see the detail at a closer zoom than what allows you to see the whole route.

So I am really suffering.

I suspect that people who sail without paper charts sail in simpler waters than these.

Quite so - As I said I always sail with paper charts for my intended route and smaller scale diversions.

But you might have better luck with another chart provider and I wonder who made your plotter? Navionics are not very good in my experience and one nasty feature is as you say the loss of very important navigational detail as you zoom out; their display engine is definitely optimized to show pretty pictures and the location of the nearest pub rather than rocks and lights.

Maybe you should try a plotter with raster charts?

**hpeer** · 26-05-2014, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This is a bit of thread drift, but I am sailing in the Baltic without paper charts, and it is awful! Despite having excellent chart plotters and up to the minute updated Navionics Gold charts, plus INavX on an IPlod. It is so rocky here, you just can't figure out a rational course through the rocks without seeing the whole picture at once and laying a protractor on it. This is impossible with a plotter, since you can only see the detail at a closer zoom than what allows you to see the whole route.

So I am really suffering.

I suspect that people who sail without paper charts sail in simpler waters than these.

I sail around Newfoundland. At one point I had a raymarine CP Navonics and a Standard Horizion with C Map. On large scall they were equal, same detail. On smaller scales the Navonics would " declutter" out details, like rocks, and islands.

I've seen the same problem in US waters, two examples come to mind, one going into Marblehead, the other in the Delaware Bay.

For that reason I don't like the Navonics so much

Jim D · 02-01-2015, 09:21

With some admitted hesitation, I would like to revive this thread. Since this chat died out in May, it seems now is a good time to get some current comments on the overall matter of the sale of Taleisin.

There are numerous recent reports, on Facebook and various blogs, that there is now a buyer for the Pardey boat. The listing itself is still up, shows the asked price at 125K USD, and has the "Sale Pending" tag.
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