The BVI's, a word of caution

[Svanen]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

It is truly funny ( in a sad way ) to watch folk cite documents, and still not understand reality, every nation/ country reserves the authority to close their borders to any degree they see fit, regardless of any treaties signed. It is just amazing how some folk can not wrap their minds around this obvious fact.

It is happening world wide, and no one is even remotely surprised by this, except first worlders who think they have rights outside of the country they are citizens of, and even then, those rights can be restricted, yes I’m talking to you, “‘I got rights” folk. Just imagine these folk having to live during WWII with all the restrictions that lasted for over a decade in some cases... they couldn’t do it, even if it meant losing WWII... they care only for themselves, regardless of harm done to others by their actions.

^^^^THIS^^^^

[sailorboy1]

I bet that the BVI officials giving a boater one of these tickets/fines doesn't care at all what the boater thinks are the “rules”. In other words it is a waste of time for people to continue to repost the rules and their understanding of it.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I bet that the BVI officials giving a boater one of these tickets/fines doesn't care at all what the boater thinks are the “rules”. In other words it is a waste of time for people to continue to repost the rules and their understanding of it.

It'll be carried to a further court and the BVI's may or may not loose and the bottom line is cruisers will go somewhere else. Maybe it doesn't matter and that's ok too.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Joli

It'll be carried to a further court ...

The judiciary of the British Virgin Islands is based on the judiciary of the United Kingdom. The British Virgin Islands is a member state of the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court. The courts are organised at four levels, including the provision for final appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in London.
Court of Appeal
Judicial Committee of the Privy Council (JCPC)
Supreme Court (High Court)
The Magistrate Court
➥ https://bvi.gov.vg/judicial-branch

Appeals from both the Supreme Court and Magistrate's Court are heard by the Court of Appeal of the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court.
The Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court is the superior court of record in the British Virgin Islands. Although commonly referred to as the High Court, technically its correct name is the Supreme Court. It is a court of unlimited jurisdiction in the British Virgin Islands.
The British Virgin Islands has one sitting judge of the High Court, and at present that judge is Vicki Ann Ellis (since 2012).
➥ https://bvi.gov.vg/supreme-court-high-court

[Joli]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The judiciary of the British Virgin Islands is based on the judiciary of the United Kingdom. The British Virgin Islands is a member state of the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court. The courts are organised at four levels, including the provision for final appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in London.
Court of Appeal
Judicial Committee of the Privy Council (JCPC)
Supreme Court (High Court)
The Magistrate Court
➥ https://bvi.gov.vg/judicial-branch

Appeals from both the Supreme Court and Magistrate's Court are heard by the Court of Appeal of the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court.
The Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court is the superior court of record in the British Virgin Islands. Although commonly referred to as the High Court, technically its correct name is the Supreme Court. It is a court of unlimited jurisdiction in the British Virgin Islands.
The British Virgin Islands has one sitting judge of the High Court, and at present that judge is Vicki Ann Ellis (since 2012).
➥ https://bvi.gov.vg/supreme-court-high-court

Why do you think it will be a British Court?

[seacap]

Originally Posted by Favoured Tack

Whatever happened to “The Right of Innocent Passage”?

They have the right to close innocent passage down when their security is at risk. But also need to disseminate that information a little better. On top of that a warning would have been more effective. As it is the officers boarded the vessel, impounded it. Took it back to, I assume, Tortola thus exposing the officers, and all personal at the docks and jail. If they were trying to protect from the intrusion of Covid, they blew it. Then a 20K$ fine? That’s over the top and makes a mockery of their slogan BVILove.

They took a tack up towards Jost Van Dyke as they were beating up towards Leinster Bay on St John. The cops wrote them up for not clearing in within 12 hours and not clearing customs and immigration. Of course they never intended to clear in as they were headed to St John.

I’m not saying this is entirely accurate, but I do live here in the USVI and the information came from a reliable source.

[CaptJimFrei]

Originally Posted by Joli

It's being reported that the BVI government is impounding and fining any boats sailing in their waters. Do not cross into their territorial waters without express permission from the BVI government. Fines are reported to be $20,000 to $50,000.

This is the first year since 1998 I have not sailed in the BVI. After reading about the New Jersey fisherman that was arrested earlier this year and incarcerated for several months, and recently 4 sailors who accidentally crossed into BVI waters while sailing from St Thomas to St Johns were arrested, I will no longer be spending any more of my tourist dollars in the BVI.

[seacap]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

So the government of the BVI should give up on trying to protect their own citizens, and let passing cruisers do whatever they want during this pandemic? Never mind that most every country on Earth has implemented many restrictions to protect their citizens, despite substantial economic consequences. The BVI should ashamed of doing anything that limits the choices of independent-minded cruisers? Isn't that a little self-centered?

That’s not what this is about. If they wanted to protect their own citizens they would have pulled along side and advise the yacht the had crossed into BVI territorial waters. As it is the boarded the yacht. Took it into port and jailed the captain and crew. How many people did they expose in that process? 20? 30?
No they dined them for an honest mistake. The guy was beating up wind to St John. He strayed over the line that was in very open water on his way. You do know what it takes to beat to weather don’t ya? $20,000 for the? UFB.

[Nicholson58]

The government and border officials have long been known for piracy. Add hostage taking and terrorism to the package.

They have long been off the list for many cruisers in the islands. Just one more good reason to never go there.

[argonauta1]

frantzjoe

Well said! Could not agree more. The BVI have very limited resources and rely on Big Brother, the UK, to bail them out albeit at a minimum level per Hurricane recovery. My wife and I have a long sailing history in the BVI. We owned a vessel in the Moorings charter fleet for many years and chartered out of Tortola before that and more recently, a couple of years back. Yeah, there are one or two rough edges: clear in and out at Jost Van Dyke, not Road Town! Generally though, the place is a little bit of paradise despite the presence of the noisy party animal crowd. If you know the area though you can find a quiet anchorage just about any time. Yes, the locals do get a bit tired of the tourists but generally we have enjoyed some interaction and when you own a charter boat under contract, you do get to know the locals who are always helpful and pleasant to deal with. Right now, they are doing what island people can do to stay safe. They have to do this in the face of this pandemic with minimal health care facilities. We wiish them well.

[rupertfb]

I was stopped by a BVI gunboat 2 weeks ago having strayed into their waters tacking up the north end of St John in a 50' cat.
They were very upset with me, carrying weapons and brandishing all sorts of threats but, as by this stage I was back in US waters, there was nothing they could do and eventually they left - having done their best to convince me not to return to BVI waters for a long long time to come.
Keep out of their waters.
Innocent Passage or not (and I used to teach UNCLOS at Naval College) .......they will ruin your day - and seem very intent on it.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by contrail

OK...let's get a few facts straight!

I was going to write the same material. You wrote it better than I would have.

Originally Posted by lestersails

Transiting offshore cannot possibly have consequences for them - but they have no way to enforce it and you can bet dollars to doughnuts that the first day they allow people to transit, someone will anchor. The next day, someone will go ashore. And on it goes.

And there is the rub. Cruisers have shown over and over that an entitled minority think the rules don’t apply to them. Cruisers leaving the US who would rather check into the Bahamas in the Berries or Green Turtle Cay but anchor on the banks in denial of law. @Contrail’s examples of violations including drugs are telling. “But I’m not carrying drugs” is whining, not a defense. “It was an accident” has been settled long ago: ignorance of the law is no excuse. Let’s not forget the BVI exclusion zone dates back to June.

“It’s not fair” sounds like children complaining that having to do their homework before watching TV isn’t fair. Let’s not lose sight of the metrics. The BVI is doing better than the US. Why should they let us in at all?

[JamesPNW]

Respecting other country sovereignty (rules, laws, customs, etc) is always a win-win for a guest. These small countries had no adequate healthcare system to deal with a pandemic, so harsh measures are understandable. Boater should be people who understand this more than anyone. Do you expect anyone to step on your boat and not follow your rules? It is as simple as that.

[Old fella]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

It is truly funny ( in a sad way ) to watch folk cite documents, and still not understand reality, every nation/ country reserves the authority to close their boarders to any degree they see fit, regardless of any treaties signed. It is just amazing how some folk can not wrap their minds around this obvious fact. It is happening world wide, and no one is even remotely surprised by this, except first worlders who think they have rights outside of the country they are citizens of, and even then, those rights can be restricted, yes I’m talking to you, “‘I got rights” folk. Just imagine these folk having to live during WWII with all the restrictions that lasted for over a decade in some cases... they couldn’t do it, even if it meant losing WWII... they care only for themselves, regardless of harm done to others by their actions.

Fair winds,

Very very well said mate

[Old fella]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Wow

Funnily I couldn’t enter the US either this year due to Covid

Why the hell would you want to.