The BVI's, a word of caution

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I am voting its too late. Bummer.

Back around July, kn a different thread, I posted the concerns that we may never get back to the Caribbean. That seemed overly pessimistic then. Not so much now.

I remember as a child watching the boat people from Vietnam fleeing Communism, death camps, and forced labor on makeshift rafts.

A common occurrence from Cuba even today.

I had always thought, "no problem", I have a blue water boat, I can sail to whichever country remaining that not Communist if it ever gets to that.

Now I see that was a naïve thought.

Unless there is a worldwide pushback against the new restrictions they are likely to become permanent.

There is always a disease.

They tried to do this with H1N1 in 2009, unsuccessfully.

From now on, now it succeeded it will likely be the "new normal", especially on election years.

International travel can be shut down completely at any time, and enforced universally for any reason, or no reason at all.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Unless there is a worldwide pushback against the new restrictions they are likely to become permanent.

I don't see pushback happening. Look at all the red here https://globalepidemics.org/key-metr...d-suppression/ . In another group I participate in about Digital Nomads there is periodic discussion about the value of various passports for travel. The value of US passports, along with UK passports, has plummeted.

Unless the US gets our act together we'll find ourselves much less welcome in other countries and where we can go there will be restrictions. So mask up. Distance. Outdoors is safER not safe. A tent in a parking lot is not outdoors, just uncomfortable. STFH. Give those who must work outside the home the respect not to run out for an "essential" Starbucks latte.

Rant over.

[capn_billl]

Ok, I get it, nearest port of entry is Nasua

[TheLuckyone]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

... This greatly reduces the burden on their limited resources to patrol...

Turning boats away at the invisible line in the open water is more of a burden than arresting offending sailors, impounding the boat, providing an effective quarantine for said sailors, and then sending them on their way, sans boat? I doubt that.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

... Big fines are a deterrent...

Big fines are certainly a deterrent, I'll agree with you there. They're also an effective deterrent for future relations.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

... Anchoring enroute is stopping...

The reports I've read had nothing to do with anchoring enroute, but simply sailing over the border. One is not the other.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Ok, I get it, nearest port of entry is Nasua

Depends on where you are coming from. Could be West End or Bimini.

I get to the Bahamas from the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, offshore, so my nearest port of entry is either Marsh Harbour or Green Turtle Cay. *grin*

Heading to the BVI (pre-COVID, pre-Exclusion Zone), I plan far ahead to clear at Jost Van Dyke or Gun Creek. Road Town is not a good place for cruisers to clear (ferries, crowd, one infamous C&I agent who is a grouch).

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by TheLuckyone

Turning boats away at the invisible line in the open water is more of a burden than arresting offending sailors, impounding the boat, providing an effective quarantine for said sailors, and then sending them on their way, sans boat? I doubt that.

To my knowledge there have been three instances. How many are being avoided? Ten? A hundred? That's a pretty good return on investment.

I haven't heard anything about boat confiscation - only impounding.

Originally Posted by TheLuckyone

Big fines are certainly a deterrent, I'll agree with you there. They're also an effective deterrent for future relations.

The long term impact on future relations is less clear. Certainly the experience of Viet Nam, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand would say no. Have you any idea what you would encounter in Australia or New Zealand if you didn't follow the rules? That was pre-COVID. How about Hawaii? They closed their borders to US citizens traveling from other states.

Originally Posted by TheLuckyone

The reports I've read had nothing to do with anchoring enroute, but simply sailing over the border. One is not the other.

That reference was with respect to my example of people crossing the Bahamas Banks and anchoring overnight without clearing. I thought that example might resonate with more readers than the BVI Exclusion Zone.

[goboatingnow]

Just a point UNCLOS disputes are not resolved in state courts , the dispute mechanism is part of unclos

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by Tonali99

Rule of the three thumbs in the US.
If you have no money, you're screwed.
If you have enough to pay the fine, you're screwed.
If you have enough to hire lawyers, you're good to go.

Sorry, if you have no money in the US you are definitely not screwed.
As a FDNY member I have been in over 3000 apartments probably 1500 of which you would consider “no money” that’s IPhones, flat screen TVs, internet, a debit card with free money on it, and all the free health care you could want.

[Simi 60]

What a bunch of entitled whiners.
Sad to see.

Think the fine is excessive?
Simple solution is don't cross the line, how hard is that.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by gonesail

sadly .. it sounds a lot like Cuba or Communist China

Sounds like the USA
Or are you going to try and tell me they never board boats who cross illegally into their territory.
Im sure I have read that they board boats who are just out minding their own business as part of safety and registration checks.

[Old fella]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

What a bunch of entitled whiners.
Sad to see.

Think the fine is excessive?
Simple solution is don't cross the line, how hard is that.

Yep, and during a pandemic stay at home and sail around your own bloody coast. It’s something they just can’t get eh Simi.

[GoinSumWare]

"Let us not forget that more borders are closed than open, just try to enter or leave the USA or Canada for example."

Are you joking? MILLIONS cross the southern US border illegally and any attempt by the US to close its border and assert its sovereignty is attacked and called "racist." Do you really want to compare that to a sailboat straying across a maritime border while tacking upwind during innocent passage through the Narrows?

[Lateral Hazard]

This may have been mentioned but in doing a bit of research it seems one of the boats that have been fined were all trying to get to Road Town and were followed from Frenchmans Cay.
They had a new alert system installed in August and can follow and track. A number of vessels have been warned they must be out past their waters and they have complied.

The public is advised of the following facts:
On 19th November, 2020. four persons were apprehended by the Joint Task Force, particularly Customs and Immigration Officers.
Nicholas Cancro, John Hines Jr, Lynee Ann Hines and Jeanne McKinnon were on board a vessel that entered the Territorial waters without permission from the Ministry of Health and the Chief Immigration Officer, while the Territory’s Borders remain closed.
The persons were charged with illegal entry without the permission of an Immigration Officer contrary to section 20(3) of the Immigration Ordinance Cap 130 as amended.
Pursuant to the Public Health laws of the Territory that were introduced to protect the Territory's citizens from the spread of the novel COVID-19 virus, the four individuals have been placed on mandatory quarantine for a period of 14 days at a local hotel.
All four persons are safe and are being cared for with BVILOVE and with the finances of the Government and people of the Virgin Islands.
The matter was submitted to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecution on the 27th November, 2020 by the Commissioner of Customs at 11:15 a.m., following which the matter was processed and forwarded to the Magistrates' Court via the Police Prosecution Unit, for an urgent hearing date.
The public is being reminded that the Territory reserves the right to apprehend and prosecute any person regardless of nationality, race, gender etc., who violates the laws of the British Virgin Islands.
The allegations being circulated by the press and persons are without merit and can easily attract civil and criminal liability.
The Government of the Virgin Islands through its law enforcement officers remains committed to keeping the Territory safe. Additionally, the Territory looks forward to its reopening of its borders on December 1 when it will welcome visitors in a safe and controlled way.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

The government and border officials have long been known for piracy. Add hostage taking and terrorism to the package.

They have long been off the list for many cruisers in the islands. Just one more good reason to never go there.

That is totally BS! Cruisers have given the BVI a miss because of all the charter boats. I agree the Government and the current policies could use some improvement, and that punishment can be harsh. But " piracy, hostage taking and terrorism"? Long been known? That is complete and utter ignorance, slander, and ignorance. With a good dose of arrogance thrown in. You picked the words...now back them up!

[contrail]

Originally Posted by rupertfb

I was stopped by a BVI gunboat 2 weeks ago having strayed into their waters tacking up the north end of St John in a 50' cat.
They were very upset with me, carrying weapons and brandishing all sorts of threats but, as by this stage I was back in US waters, there was nothing they could do and eventually they left - having done their best to convince me not to return to BVI waters for a long long time to come.
Keep out of their waters.
Innocent Passage or not (and I used to teach UNCLOS at Naval College) .......they will ruin your day - and seem very intent on it.

Since you "used to teach UNCLOS at Naval College" perhaps you can explain your use of gunboat? Because fast inflatables or console boats with armed officers are about as military as we get here.....not what most people would remotely call gunboats.