Vendee Globe Starts Today, Facts, Video, Discussion

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Since breaking the foil, Alex has been mostly sailing downwind

However when reaching on the broken foil tack, i assume he would be making a lot more leeway, especially on a close reach.

Polux, my question...??

Can we really tell unless they are sailing side by side with identical conditions, if Alex is seriously handicapped by the broken foil?

Both boats have clearly designed with stronger and weaker points in what regards sail performance, that is clear. Regarding not having a foil I don't believe that there is not a loss of performance in what regards sailing on that tack on the circumstances foils are used ( in others they are brought in) but the diference on that boat has to be small otherwise we would have Beyou (or Meilhat and Josse when they were in the race) closing quickly on Alex Thompson and that did not happen.

The loss of a foil happened near South Africa, a long long distance away. The sailors on the head of the race are all great sailors, with a close performance and if the boat was substantially handicapped he would have be caught and overtaken by the ones that have similarly fast boats.

Regarding going upwind these foils work really badly and the keel is important here even if with stronger winds and all canted to the opposite side it would not be a great help. The rule of these boats should be modified to allow besides these foils the existence of dagger boards for upwind sailing.

When some of these new boats make the next Fastnet it will be very apparent how badly they sail upwind, not due mostly to the hull shape but by the absence of any foil that gives a good grip upwind.

If Vincent Riou and PRB were in the race right now and had managed to have staied close to these two boats, he would have now a massive advantage. That's why their team previsions regarding the advantage of using the new foils and the old ones showed that the advantage was practically nonexistent.

On these conditions and regarding those two boats I believe that on the next two days it would be more about routing than anything more.

[Pelagic]

Thanks Polux.....
What a wonderful thought if Vincent had still been in contention [emoji106]

[Polux]

While waiting for the next information regarding boat position, three good movies unfortunately in French regarding three past Vendee editions. There is always a good movie about the Vendee but that can only be put on the net some years latter because they sell it in DVD, in big numbers and that would spoil the the business.

These are the ones of the glory days of Mike Golding, Ellen Mac Arthur, Desjoyeaux, Riou and the sadly famous edition of 1996 with 5 capsized boats, the one that lead to severe boat alterations in what regards safety.

On the 2000 edition don't miss how Ellen (2th) was then incredibly young and also have a look at another very young sailor, Thomas Coville (6th), the one that some days ago beat the solo circumnavigation record. Look also at all those icebergs they were "playing" with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFqXuonx3j0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51hpcgW0m7c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi_kzLcODjk

From the one that make 1996 or 2000 editions only one sailor is making this Vendee, Nandor Fa, that had to abandon on the 1996 edition after a collision but that had finished the previous edition (1992) in 5th place. A sexagenary now, 25 years later he is 8th on this edition on a boat built and designed by him. Chapeau!!!!

From the ones that raced on the 2004 edition you had or have on this vendee, Vincent Riou (1st), Jean Le Cam (2nd), Sebastien Josse (5th), Jean-Pierre Dick (6th) and Alex Thompson that retired with a hole on the deck.

[Polux]

Terrible conditions for those two and for a long time. They should be exhaust. Contrary to what most think the worse conditions are not those with heavy seas and big waves. If that is not really up the scale, they just set the sails and go inside. Not comfortable but most of the time not too much work and these guys trained themselves to be able to rest in almost any circumstances.

On the contrary these conditions with very light and changing winds demand a constant tuning of the sails even manual steering to be able to take advantage of the lightest puff of wind and not to let the boat lose speed and apparent wind.

That means constant work and when you have constant work and are only one, that allows for little rest and soon the exhaustion creeps in. That is much worse when there is someone close and one is battling for the win. I can hardly imagine how they must feel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HClcAkm8dTY

And the conditions are not improving much. That high pressure center is pretty stationary and they have to turn around it.

It seems Alex chose the same routing as Armel, he is just 137nm behind and that means Armel will get the wind first but it is a completely frontal wind and probably they both need to go near the Brazilian coast before catching the trades...and these boats are not good sailing upwind. I bet they are both pissed with the weather and hoping that torment to finish quickly.

I remember some year ago a interview with some of the competitors regarding if they were afraid of storms and it turned out that is this they are more afraid off, those deep blue colors on the weather maps.

[Polux]

Enda O'Coineen lost the rig. What a way to start the year

"Contacted by Race HQ at 0930hrs UTC this morning O'Coineen explained:

“You roll the dice. I was caught a little bit unawares. I was in 20-25 kts of breeze and a very vicious 35kt squall came through and the self-steering malfunctioned just at the wrong moment. I did an involuntary gybe and then a gybe back.

The boat was out of control and I was caught without the runner properly on and the mast snapped. I have to laugh because if I don't I will cry. The mast came clean off at the deck and in fact it was intact. But the whole rig went over the side.

I had the difficult decision to make of whether to try and save the rig or whether to save the hull of the boat. I thought of safety first. I cut the rig free from the boat. I was worried that the stump of the rig would hole the boat. The seas were pretty wild. There was a big sea running. I cut the entire rig free. I am mastless, the deck was holed. It is not a happy situation but there it is, you roll the dice. That is the risk you take.

I am devastated. Things were going quite well. I was in good shape. Having got this far I felt we could handle anything. There was just that little malfunction of the self-steering that set a whole train in motion. I have to accept responsibility. What happens, happens.

Look, you have to be philosophical. This sort of sailing is living on the edge. I have been doing that for 57 days and as the fella says if you are living on the edge you are taking up too much space. I was taking up too much space on the edge.

Ironically I had just done a little interview with myself for New Year. I celebrated with a small bottle of champagne. My alter personality asked me about my New Year's Resolution. And my New Year's Resolution was to take less risk with my life. In business, in my life I have taken a lot of risk. The risk enabled me to make enough money to buy this boat. to pursue the dream, to pursue my adventure. The irony is that only two hours earlier I had recorded a video to pledge to take less risk. And here I am. Risk is a four letter word, like a lot of meaningful four letter words in the English language. "
News - Enda O'Coineen’s Boat has Dismasted 180 Miles South-East of New Zealand.Â* - Vendée Globe 2016-2017

On the head of the race the fight continues, with Armel winning slowly and laboriously mile after mile to Alex that is now at about 190nm.

Alex tried a different routing last night, turning west much sooner then Armel that approached much more the Brazilian coast but I would say that he will gain nothing with that. Armel is still in a better position regarding stronger winds and will touch first the trade winds.

Both sail already with a wind that allows them to do 9/11K, going Armel about 1k faster than Alex due to more wind pressure. Still 48 hours for the trade winds.

By the way, the guys from windy added an interesting feature and are also obviously having fun with the race. Now the prospective course when you go forward with the weather prevision is not a straight one and it takes wind direction in consideration: nice
https://gis.ee/vg/

[toddedger]

I'm curious, does anyone know what each boat is using for electronics? It would be interesting to know what wind transducers have failed along with autopilots. I see the Raymarine site says Alex is using their quantum radar, but no mention of him using anything else of their brand.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by toddedger

I'm curious, does anyone know what each boat is using for electronics? It would be interesting to know what wind transducers have failed along with autopilots. I see the Raymarine site says Alex is using their quantum radar, but no mention of him using anything else of their brand.

Simply get to VG website browse the images and videos.

Most boats carry nke or B&G electronics. I have seen (so I think) B&G APs behind Alex. Just watch his vids and you will know. Few mix nke and B&G. So if he has B&G Aps, he is likely on Simrad wind sensor (s) too.

Nke has a special 3-in box that multiplexes 3 wind sensors. This reduces hysteria, smoothes our dir reading and keeps on going even if you lose 1 sensor to rain, birds or salt water.

PLS Note that whatever B&G Alex might have on HIS boat will be a mixture of off the shelf components with the cutting edge toys from their development board. Not quite the regular stuff you get at your local dealer.

image attribution: http://www.vendeeglobe.org/medias/00...-1600-1200.jpg

b.

[toddedger]

I wonder if that multiplex wind sensor box is the culprit in Alexs' current problem. That looks like a really old Raymarine MFD at his nav station. I wonder if Raymarine whipped up a custom low power radar display for him to go with that special black quantum radar?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by toddedger

I wonder if that multiplex wind sensor box is the culprit in Alexs' current problem. That looks like a really old Raymarine MFD at his nav station. I wonder if Raymarine whipped up a custom low power radar display for him to go with that special black quantum radar?

Alex and Armel use the same autopilot and wind sensor, from B&G. B&G and NKE is what are used on the vendee. All very expensive and good material, the best.

Alex is losing time over Alex due to a different routing. Alex could have chosen to follow Armel, as someone had said some days ago, maintaining a distance of about 120 to 150nm. Probably the best in what regards losing less miles but that way we would never catch Armel so instead he decided to make a different routing in the hope it can turn better.

Till now no luck with his different routing even if he is now winning some miles over Armel but at medium and long term Armel option seems much better to me. We will see if I am wrong

You can see their different routing here. Click on + 12 hours several times.
https://gis.ee/vg/

[admiralslater]

I go onto the vendee website a couple of times a day and have really enjoyed it . For give me if it has been mentioned before but I wonder if because of Alex's experience that we might see a combo situation where foils are used where they are best suited and dagger boards are there as well.

On the web site in the tracking section you can click on a boat and get various pieces of information including boat speed and Vmg .Does any one know if this is calculated against the wind angle or is it against the final destination . Today it showed Armel making 2-3 knots better boat speed than Alex but his vmg to Alex's was a lot lower

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by toddedger

I wonder if that multiplex wind sensor box is the culprit in Alexs' current problem. (...)

Lok at my earlier post. I think Alex may have Simrad sensors.

It is nke that makes the 3-in box. Nke and B&G do not interconnect out of the box. It would be odd if HB preparateurs mixed nke and simrad components. Odd but not unlikely, just not what you normally do.

If you email HB team, they may tell you outright what sensors they have. It is not that top secret. Not everything. Only the newest stuff that you can't buy anyways because they will have only prototypes at hand.

Cheers,
b.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

I go onto the vendee website a couple of times a day and have really enjoyed it . For give me if it has been mentioned before but I wonder if because of Alex's experience that we might see a combo situation where foils are used where they are best suited and dagger boards are there as well.

On the web site in the tracking section you can click on a boat and get various pieces of information including boat speed and Vmg .Does any one know if this is calculated against the wind angle or is it against the final destination . Today it showed Armel making 2-3 knots better boat speed than Alex but his vmg to Alex's was a lot lower

Not really understand what you mean by "daggerboards are there as well". They can't have both. The ones that use the new foils cannot use daggerboards and the performance upwind sucks. In fact I cannot see the new foils adding anything in what regards going upwind, they just add drag.

Regarding the information I believe Vmg regards the speed towards the best course to the finish regarding their position. That course is not a direct one due to predominant winds.

[Polux]

Big fight on the lead, Alex had won about 30nm during the night to Armel. They are doing about the same speed but the wind angle is better for Alex as well as the VMG. I don't understand why Armel had not tacked sooner since on the other tack the advantage is his.

More upwind sailing to do on the next 24 hours now in direction to the Brazilian coast, already on the trade winds but going still upwind. Then slowly the wind is going to rotate and they will go on a beam reach.

While they go upwind the broken foil of Alex does not matter and when they reach the trades and foils will be on their optimal use conditions, Alex will be sailing on the tack where he can use the intact foil. So all good news for Alex.
https://gis.ee/vg/

"The British and French skippers should reach the more favorable breezes at around the same time, tacking on to starboard for the long climb north towards the Doldrums. Because Thomson is further to the east - albeit always playing with slightly less wind in recent days - his payback should come when he reaches the trades at around the same time as his French rival. Weather modelling shows another small comeback for Thomson against Le Cléac'h, the north south separation of 130 miles this morning reducing progressively. The tension is set to continue into the North Atlantic, assuming both have a similar Doldrums crossing. But the duo do seem to remain connected, in some ways reprising the 2012-13 battle between Le Cléac'h and eventual winner François Gabart."
http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/1...take-new-turns

Beyou won big over the lead but is at 650nm, too far away to recover and besides he has ahead a zone with weak winds.

Great fight between old Nandor Fa and young Conrad Colman, an Hungarian and a NZ. Those two are friends and know themselves very well having already made a racing duo circumnavigation together on the last Barcelona World race (finished 7th and last). Fa leads but they are now separated by only 200nm. One thing is for sure, they are far to be the last on these ones on this one, having 9 boats behind. They are making a great race!

Meanwhile Rich Wilson, the American racer, is sailing fast on a gale:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMMS35hKHjA

[Bleemus]

Armel has tacked to starboard and Alex appears to be trying to get to his East to gain maximum leverage on the anticipated shift to the East. Nice move!

[Juho]

Armel seems to be high enough to continue straight (=curved) to Cape Verde. Alex maybe has to continue with current course for a while to do the same.