Who was Christopher Columbus?

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

the biggest fallacy of them all....

CC discovered America....ha ha ha ha...he never set foot on this continent..

Well, actually he probably did.
On his 3rd voyage he ventured to the mouth of the Orinoco, and because of the riverine flow of water, realized he was on a continent. It is believed he went ashore at some point here. But he thought the South America he saw was Asia. He further coasted along the Gulf of Paria where he “ collected” pearls.
On his 4th voyage, he sailed the coasts of present-day Nicaragua, Honduras, Costa Rica and Panama. He ventured up rivers in those areas seeking a passage, at one point only 32 miles from the Pacific Ocean. Did he go ashore? Maybe, maybe not. But he certainly saw the tail of the North American continent.
The word “discovered” means different things to different people. The New World certainly wasn’t “ lost”, particularly to its inhabitants. But in the sense that his accidental encounter of it brought it to the ineradicable attention of European consciousness, (even though he may not have been first) his efforts unquestionably initiated the bi-directional stream of influence, power, disease, and everything else that persists to this day.

[snort]

Other times, he sent attack dogs to hunt them down, and dogs ripped out the arms and legs of the screaming native people while they were still alive.

All true!
Few know the dark history of the French Poodle, which is the breed Columbus used to terrorize the native peoples.
Despite the innocuous look, and even when they're adorned with pink ribbons and painted toenails, these vicious creatures have the jaw power of ten crocodiles combined, not to mention the rippling muscles and sheer tearing force of their limbs.
These were seafaring dogs with a reputation surpassing all other breeds of being the cruelest and most bloodthirsty of killers.
Feel free to quote me.

[dannc]

Just to stir the pot, or add to the fire, that Columbus was not the first European to find The New World....





Which European "country" first discovered The New World?

And to paraphrase A Christmas Story...

It, it, it was...

The Irish.

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/h...opher-columbus

ARCHEOMYSTERE

Later,
Dan

[Mickeyrouse]

The “ Who discovered America” controversy is as old as...Columbus. Could have been Madoc...or Phoenicians...or Polynesians...or Breton fisherman..or St. Brendan....or the Red Paint people.....and most certainly the Vikings. I have always thought that the more the likely candidates there were just enhanced Columbus’ encounter. All those other guys that may who have found it did little to nothing with their knowledge. Columbus was smart enough to get royal sponsorship and made something of the information.

[Narfi]

So you are saying he was doing it before youtube and pateron but still accomplishing the same thing?

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

The “ Who discovered America” controversy is as old as...Columbus. Could have been Madoc...or Phoenicians...or Polynesians...or Breton fisherman..or St. Brendan....or the Red Paint people.....and most certainly the Vikings. I have always thought that the more the likely candidates there were just enhanced Columbus’ encounter. All those other guys that may who have found it did little to nothing with their knowledge. Columbus was smart enough to get royal sponsorship and made something of the information.

Yep, Columbus gets the prize because nobody before him really did anything with the information. Not sure they really COULD do anything with the knowledge. To put it another way, Columbus was the first to file a patent and make a product. The other people from the EU who "discovered" the New World did not even file a patent.

The funny thing is that is that I was searching for something completely different than the Irish discovering the New World. I had heard of St. Brendan but the stuff I posted was new to me.

Because of what I randomly walked into, I went reading about which peoples might have found/washed up in various places. There is DNA evidence of Polynesian genetics in South America for instance. People from somewhere, most likely Greenland, have washed up in Norway and Galway Ireland. Columbus is supposed to have seen the body and boat in Galway. Japanese ships/boats have washed up in various places in the Pacific North West, I think it was in the early 1800s when it was documented, but of course it could have happened in the past.

Later,
Dan

[Mickeyrouse]

It would be hard to imagine random isolated encounters NOT occurring in the 5,000- plus years of seafaring before Columbus. Even though the Norse established a well-documented but failed settlement at L’Anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland the lack of recurring communication prevented further colonization and it was effectively forgotten and unexploited. Columbus’ motives- economic, religious, political, cultural, and personal- are undoubtedly suspect from our perspective 5 centuries later. But good or bad, he did it when no one else could or would.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Captain Bligh

Would I be remiss if i said Columbus treated the natives no worse than the ruling Aztect treated their own?

Yep, that makes it all good.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

the biggest fallacy of them all....

CC discovered America....ha ha ha ha...he never set foot on this continent..

True, is that rubbish still taught in USA schools?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Au contraire! On his 4th voyage he cruised the Nonth American Coast from Panama thru Nicagagua and Honduras and landed 4 times. Info from "Admiral of the Ocean Seas" by US Admiral Morrison , Historian of the US Navy.

The fallacy I believe he is referring to is what used to be, still is?, taught in USA schools that Colombus discovered "America" (meaning the USA, not the "Americas").

[MicHughV]

correct.....

though I wonder how one " discovers" a place only to find people already living there ???

back in the day, this pursuit of discovery was not particularly aimed at finding new cultures, people's, etc...no, it was the pursuit of wealth....gold....etc..and if a few people had to annihilated in the process..ah well, that's just business..

not much has changed since those days...

[Discovery 15797]

Isn't Columbus the sailor/navigator who postulated an idea contrary to accepted belief at the time, and successfully crossed an ocean and started mapping previously uncharted waters and lands?

MicHughV - it is my understanding that discovery occurs when something previously unknown to "modern" society is found and entered into historical written records.

The indigenous tribes on the continent of north America and many of the islands had no written language and thus there is no historical record or no known preexisting maps of the coastlines of the Americas. Thus, to the "modern" 15th century society who had no knowledge of the Americas prior to Columbus bumping into the Americas in search of routes to Asia was a discovery.

Today, modern scientists are "discovering" new species of animals every year, but the indigenous peoples where these species are "found" say..."oh yeah, we know about those critters, now go back to where you came from and leave us alone."

So, you're probably right...not much has changed.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by snort

All true!
Few know the dark history of the French Poodle, which is the breed Columbus used to terrorize the native peoples.
Despite the innocuous look, and even when they're adorned with pink ribbons and painted toenails, these vicious creatures have the jaw power of ten crocodiles combined, not to mention the rippling muscles and sheer tearing force of their limbs.
These were seafaring dogs with a reputation surpassing all other breeds of being the cruelest and most bloodthirsty of killers.
Feel free to quote me.

Forget the history of the poodle. My French friends use their specially bred toy poodles to hunt hippopotamuses in Africa. One dog will go into the water and drag the beast over to the bank where my friends use the baguette and cheese knives to gut the hippo while it is still alive.
If you've never tasted hippo meat. Don't.

[Andre Robles]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Interesting theory... I suppose we'll have to wait another year to find out!!

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p08jg...opher-columbus

A true explorer and intrepid navigator that was willing to risk everything (for whatever reason), he found more than what he bargained for.

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I suppose it comes from the "publish or perish" mentality. You have to publish something. You don't want to say, "I'm going to hash over the same crap that has been hashed over a hundred times before." So instead you pretend like you're revealing some great secret that no one has ever talked about.


It really is pretty absurd.

Yup, and that comes from the origins of a PhD = you have to discover something new. Well that something new gets wierder and weirder as time goes on, cuz all the normal things have already been said on subjects like history.

The social sciences in todays university environment are a load of bullcrap, more like medieval discussions of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin than any serious intellectual endeavour.