Cascading mistakes turned it to a bad day

[waterman46]

Recovery from a "wrapped" jib: Simply turn back to the original course and jibe the main back to the original tack. Let the main out all the way on the old tack, heading dead downwind, to blanket the jib. This should remove most of the air from the jib and you can winch it in to bring it back off the forestay.

[proudsailor]

I love this forum! Hive mind is great! My general rule of thumb is any day on a boat that's not going down is a great day, so success to you Fishzine as the only way to become a better sailor is through experience and wisdom.

My lessons learned from this thread:
- downwind to reef the main. I always thought that I could not get a reef in d/t pressure on the sail and would always go upwind. Challenging but doable. Mistake?
-We have a 150 Genoa and it is hard as hell to pull in at any point of sail when winds are above 15kts if it's not already reduced. I like the idea of having the main block the wind in a downwind scenario but have found myself in tight maneuvers where that is not an option. Letting the head sail flap while rolling it in does not work in higher winds. How could that be handled?

[upstateny]

This thread was awesome. Thanks everyone I learned a few things and more important verified/reviewed things I already knew.

Since my boat has hanked on headsails, I was surprised nobody mentioned practice dropping the headsail in case the roller fuller is completely broken.

[guitarrich]

Some great answers already, - and I only read first 2 pages, so apologies for any repetition …

Heave to

Heave to

Heave to!!!

This is the single best manoeuvre to get yourself out of a pickle. It’s magical!! Instant peace - in almost any situation. You can then take all the time you need to calm down, chat with crew, listen to ideas, have a sandwich!

My teenager was brought up with yachts, but is no better off for it. Next week she’s going on a sailing course with other teenagers. Hopefully this will ignite some interest - or not! But she should at least hear other people saying the same as her mum and dad, and maybe, just maybe realise that we’re not completely stupid!!

[Deep Blue Water]

I scanned through the thread so if I missed these points I apologize. You mention your better half and the teenager - how old for the kid? If the teenager was inexperienced at the helm would your wife have been better?


It sounds as if it was a series of small misfortunes that kept adding to one another, only thing I'd suggest would be to take said inexperienced crew and practice reefing, furling, holding the bow into the wind etc so all three of you are (at least) familiar with the process - then it becomes as common as tying up to the slip.

[Nibiruwayne]

First thanks for sharing an honest report for discussion. I think your heading into the wind with a full powered main was a good decision in those conditions And crew.. in a close harbor, options decrease due to traffic , depths, and maneuvering space. Loosening the main sheets would place the crew at risk with a flopping main boom to worry about. Going downwind you lose the rudder control

[OneBoatman]

A couple of things to keep in mind as some mistakes have a price higher than others: No particular order. First when a novice is at the helm things are better managed if you have at least two additional persons of some experience aboard to handle the sails when gybing. A genoa can quite easily get a twist around the headstay as you found out if not properly handled. The two keys are take most allof the slack out of the lazy sheet before the gybe and to haul in on the working sheet as the boat is turning just before the wind grabs your jib on the new windward side. This will help keep some tension on the leech and encourage the clew to pass through your fore triangle. Yes reef early and when you first consider is prudent whether short handed or not but also it will help keep any inexperienced crew calmer. Since a genoa can be more difficult to handle when gybing you might consider furling it at least 50% or completely in freshening winds, that way you can focus on controlling the mainsail as the wind is crossing your stern. Three other tips: Always take the slack out of your furling line once it is fully deployed and secure it until you are ready to use it again so it is less likely to become entangled anywhere forward of where you use it. If your halyards are hanging and coiled at the mast as on many boats, they should be secured. I secure them with a designated light line, a seatbelt if you will to the mast. This is extra insurance against them getting entangled with the jib sheets. Do not ignore the lazy sheet when you are coming about, when the wind kicks up this will frequently find its way to a problem. It can get entangled with your halyards as I mentioned if not secured or perhaps tear a cowl vent right off the top of your dorade box.

[R Hutcheson]

I wasn't there and I'm not familiar with your boat, so take this with a grain of salt. Also, I don't know anything about the ability/willingness of you crew. But I would have considered putting the boat on a deep reach with the main properly set to blanket the jib with the wind shadow of the main. This also would have the affect of reducing the sail area exposed to the wind, depowering you rig and making going forward to free the line easier. Then ask a crew member to go forward and free the roller furling line. It doesn't sound like either of your crew has the experience to hold a deep reach while preventing an accidental gybe, so you would probably have to stay on the helm. Once the line was freed, you could roll up the jib and continue with just the main. I always try to brief new crew members before leaving the dock of the possibility I will need to ask them to do something they may not be comfortable with, and ask if there are things they feel they cannot do. This allows me to determine if I actually have a crew or if I have guests. As you've discovered, if you are sailing with guests, then it is wise to be even more conservative than you would be if single handing, to avoid frightening them. Also, from your description, I don't think you did anything which the boat should not have been able to take in stride, albeit with a lot of noise. The spreader was probably already broken or severely compromised. I would inspect the entire rig for potential trouble. And don't get discouraged, everyone on this site has had a similar experience in the past. It's part of learning what does, and does not work, on a new to you boat. BTW, I've been doing this for thirty years, and I still don't always follow my own advice.

[Fishzine]

Was at the boat yesterday and got a chance to get a closer look at the damaged spreader. Wooden spreader has a 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 inch cross section at the mast and slips into rectangular spreader socket that is welded to the mast and then has two bolts running thru the socket and the spreader. These bolts are roughly 1 inch set back into the spread socket. The spreader failed along the line where these two bolts go thru. It then pulled away from the mast and shifted forward about 3/4 inch and jammed itself back into the spreader box. So the short side of the spreader socket is jammed into the wooden spreader. So it is actually pretty stable at this point, just out of alignment.

Analysis, the wood was already significantly weekend by those two bolts and allowing water to soak into the wood. There is also a plastic roller that was on the stay just above the spreader that has been broken. This was all on the downwind side of the mast when I made the turn. So my guess is the flogging sail, got caught on the spreader or hit the spreader, put lateral forces on the aged spreader and found the weak point and did the damage. Got a quote for aluminum replacements of $2500!!!!! So wood has made it 50+ years, and if wood had been in good condition everything likely wood have been fine. Wood replacement it is, unless someone has good source or suggestions for cheaper aluminum options. I will also make sure to seal up the wood where the bolts go thru better too. The professionals also can't get to it for at least a month and would take a couple weeks, so I will be doing it else I would loose most of rest of this season.

Now the question is do I pull the boat and drop the mast to replace the spreaders, or do it in water with mast still up. Even with a deck-step mast I don't believe replacing them one at a time is going to be that difficult to do with mast still up. Had planned on dropping mast this coming winter to go over everything so maybe I will just do that early. Haven't made a decision yet either way.

Just joys of owning a sailboat, build it back stronger.

[Fishzine]

Originally Posted by guitarrich

Some great answers already, - and I only read first 2 pages, so apologies for any repetition …

Heave to

Heave to

Heave to!!!

Couple people have suggested this, and I considered it in the moment. It certainly was a good option, I opted to not heave to for a very simple reason. Heaving to would have still required me to sail up thru the wind anyway. Or put another way, motoring up into the wind was step one of heaving to, I just never needed to complete the process of heaving to because situation was already resolved. Sure I could have heaved to without the need to start up the diesel, but starting the diesel is a simple turn key and push of the button right there in cockpit and take make 10 seconds and no real downside.

[Dave9111]

I mostly single hand a 33 ft sloop.

When things get weird I point the bow towards the wind.

With the wind at the bow, or close, everything, sails, lines, etc tend to blow towards the back of the boat as well. Start the engine as you steer into the wind. You don't have to be exactly into the wind. If you back draft your headsail and power into the wind with the engine running moderately, you are effectively heaving too under power. That can be a very stable situation. Everything pretty much stops.

Get things corrected, lines pulled in etc, and slowly turn the boat under power, correct your sail positions and continue on. Leave the engine running until things are good. In order to do this you will need to be at the helm. A novice at the helm would have no idea what to do.

Whenever you are the only experienced sailor on the boat, you are pretty much single handing with "assistance". That assistance can be good or bad. Oftentimes sailing solo can be easier.

Regarding your spreader. Find some clear grained douglas fir 2 x4 stock and make it yourself. Any decent lumberyard will have some of that around. Shape it, seal it, and paint it. You should be good for 20+ years for a lot less than $100.

[JPA Cate]

On the day you decide to address the broken spreader, check the other one, too. Whatever depredations of water and time affected the one have likely affected the other, but if it looks good, then you could trust it. (Wood does age over time, and some folks will say it starts to rot the day it's cut. Ime, it isn't that fragile, but 50 yrs. is a considerable length of time, even for nature's carbon fiber.)

Yes, you can do it in the water. Lead halyards off to the side to support the masthead. save the spinnaker halyard to go aloft on. Remove the good spreader to learn what kind of timber you need to replace the other one, and to determine the shape it will have to be. Once you get the timber, shape it and seal it everywhere with penetrating epoxy. Then, paint it, to protect the epoxy from UV.

Good luck with it.

Ann

[gordonhinds]

You raise some good points.

First. Rig your boat relative to the experience of your crew. So probably be conservative. Your jib/genoa is on a furler so reduce the size if the wind picks up first. You can run with full main up to 30 knots (bit hairy but ok). Your crew were inexperienced.

Second. Furl the jib before gybing. It gets it out of the way.

Third. Release the main after gybing as it can easily over power if you sail a beam course.

Four. Relative to point one, start with a reef in the main.

Five. Try not to flog your rig/sails. They have a lot of weight so you will break something and ruin your sails as the resin cracks on the sail cloth.

Six. Really take time to gybe. There is no rush if you aren’t racing.

Shorthanded sailing is challenging. You emerged a bit shaken but ok. The spreader was probably going to break anyway so now you can fix both of them without losing your mast.

[captchetco]

I agree with "Tillsbery" comment number 3, but add an additional reason for turning down wind. The main is now available to blanket the jib, allowing low load changes or unwinding. You should also have some better contol over the boat, as water is now flowing along its hull, and also over the rudder.

[Hhew]

Gybes can get messy. With inexperienced crew, consider tacking for 270 degrees of turn vice gybing for 90. Added benefit: opportunity for a quick lecture on the hazards of the unintentional gybe.