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IdoraKeeper · 25-03-2016, 09:01

[QUOTE=sailorboy1;2080814]lighten up some, ...................... go have a beer

Excellent suggestion but I think I will go to the gym first.

sanibel sailor · 25-03-2016, 09:34

Plenty of strongly help opinions from people who have never experienced addiction first hand. Kind of like the guy on the dock who has read all the books and so thinks he knows what a storm at sea is like. Unless one has lived it, understanding is limited.

The problem with the psychobabble horseshit regarding causes is that it provides no solution for the problem. Self-knowledge seems to provide no relief.

**boatman61** · 25-03-2016, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Well unfortunately for posturing uneducated Boaty, you're wrong. It's a combination of genetics and early environmental brain development. Yes the snooty psycho-babble by clean wriggling handed psuedo-scientists is BS, but the underlying physical understanding about addiction is absolutely true - frontal lobes, executive function and all. And even though we might understand all of this, in the hands of the law it should make no difference as an excuse, unless it's in liberal UK where they don't have a death sentence.

Okay Oh Great and Mighty Ape..
You consider yourself well versed on things that influence the Lobes... as spouted by Freud and Jung.. and their Quack successors..
How would you analyse my pre adult environmental influences and genetics on my warped brain chemistry.. you've been reading my posts long enough to make a judgement..

Always tell when nerves are raw.. the personal **** begins

SaltyMonkey · 25-03-2016, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Okay Oh Great and Mighty Ape..
You consider yourself well versed on things that influence the Lobes... as spouted by Freud and Jung.. and their Quack successors..
How would you analyse my pre adult environmental influences and genetics on my warped brain chemistry.. you've been reading my posts long enough to make a judgement..

Always tell when nerves are raw.. the personal **** begins

Oh nonono. Forget Freud and Jung. Forget Quack successors. Liars all. Look to neurological, the physical not the interpretation of dreams. Research how neural path work and form early on. Look to the chemistry of the brain. Look to the MRIs. Look to genetic research. We know a lot more these days than that witchcraft of the past. Its there. It'd disproved the hoaxes. It's real.

Your brain formed with better nutrition than most, probably from all that fish and chips and snake and pygmie pie. You probably also have fair genes in your family -- no psychosis; less addiction; cancer etc etc. Perhaps you are really German although you will never admit being a tobacco addict.

But nay, I have seen it. Like father like son. Like indian; like scout. Perhaps 6-10% of popul. Alcohol in early birth. Not necessary lower class, but it seems to arise from the pressure of poverty or maybe just a vicious cycle. Not necessary from upp class , but it seems to arise from entitlement too. a combo of many factors -- inheret and env. It's real; it exists. No excuses. It just is. Some people can keep it in check; some can't.

Did I tell you about my naybour who hung himself on our shared trellis a year ago? He tried to call the alcol hot line. Fell into an uncontrollable weekend binge. Couldn't take it no more...Didn't know anything about him at that time. Always quiet. Heard a sigh before he went through the wall as I opened my closet. Thought I had accidentally woken him up. Thought nothing of it. Thought he was a successful chap. Had his own business. Well loved in the community. Would never have known. I felt bad then and after.

**boatman61** · 25-03-2016, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Oh nonono. Forget Freud and Jung. Forget Quack successors. Liars all. Look to neurological, the physical not the interpretation of dreams. Research how neural path work and form early on. Look to the chemistry of the brain. Look to the MRIs. Look to genetic research. We know a lot more these days than that witchcraft of the past. Its there. It'd disproved the hoaxes. It's real.

Your brain formed with better nutrition than most, probably from all that fish and chips and snake and pygmie pie.

Curry, lentils and rice actually.. don't eat fish.. and disciplined enough to stop while I can manage a few more mouthfuls..

You probably also have fair genes in your family -- no psychosis; less addiction; cancer etc etc. Perhaps you are really German although you will never admit being a tobacco addict.

Two male Grand parents died of cancer before 70.. father from lead poisoning..

But nay, I have seen it. Like father like son. Like indian; like scout. Perhaps 6-10% of popul. Alcohol in early birth. Not necessary lower class, but it seems to arise from the pressure of poverty or maybe just a vicious cycle.

Father non smoker rare glass of Madeira on special occasions, mother social smoker.. maybe 10/month and enjoyed an occasional G&T

Not necessary from upp class , but it seems to arise from entitlement too. a combo of many factors -- inheret and env. It's real; it exists. No excuses. It just is. Some people can keep it in check; some can't.

Man you like to cover all base's.. sure your not a 'Trick Cyclist'..

Karachi latchkey street kid till seven.. then convent school 3 years and boarding school the next 5yrs.. Entitlement.?? damn right.. I earned it.. only white kid in a school of 1500.. English and proud of it.. enough to fight often and never say 'Uncle'..
Zero envy.. I have all I need.. food, shelter and a personal sense of honour..
Kicked outa school at 15.. exiled to UK and dumped in the services.. so some may judge me uneducated.. kicked outa the Navy 6 years later.. don't take **** if I feel its undeserved and they could not break me.. no feeling of shame..

Did I tell you about my naybour who hung himself on our shared trellis a year ago? He tried to call the alcol hot line. Fell into an uncontrollable weekend binge. Couldn't take it no more...Didn't know anything about him at that time. Always quiet. Heard a sigh before he went through the wall as I opened my closet. Thought I had accidentally woken him up. Thought nothing of it. Thought he was a successful chap. Had his own business. Well loved in the community. Would never have known. I felt bad then and after.

Talk about the blind leading the blind...

Learnt early on close folks will always put their own interests first.. family, friends whoever.. played with drugs.. acid.. disliked not being in control Coke.. disliked illusion of super control.. Heroin.. don't like needles and seen enough Dragon chasers in Peshawar to know its for losers..
I work hard and as Jedi will vouch I can play hard.. but the mind stays focused.. even when the legs may fail..

You say I'm uneducated.. maybe to a WASP.. but hell.. there's a lotta dumb white WASP's out there.. I'm content.

Only one thing stops me being an alki or junkie.. self respect and the need to be in MY control.. if I needed anyone else's I'd likely be joining AA with the rest.. or OD'ing in a gutter.
Oh.. and zero ambition other than to enjoy life..

Its nice to wake in the morning, look in the mirror and like what I see..

apart from the hairs sprouting from my ears and nose.. the wrinkles.. the thinning hair.. and the fact I've had to start wearing glasses for a clean shave

Oh woe is me..

**boatman61** · 25-03-2016, 15:25

Apologies to everyone else..

Just can't resist striking a good posture when I get the chance...

Rustic Charm · 25-03-2016, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Okay Oh Great and Mighty Ape..
You consider yourself well versed on things that influence the Lobes... as spouted by Freud and Jung.. and their Quack successors..
How would you analyse my pre adult environmental influences and genetics on my warped brain chemistry.. you've been reading my posts long enough to make a judgement..

Always tell when nerves are raw.. the personal **** begins

Monkey's arnt Apes

Just saying

SaltyMonkey · 25-03-2016, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Oh.. and zero ambition other than to enjoy life..

Its nice to wake in the morning, look in the mirror and like what I see..

apart from the hairs sprouting from my ears and nose.. the wrinkles.. the thinning hair.. and the fact I've had to start wearing glasses for a clean shave

Oh woe is me..

Ahh, but you are built tough. Tough tough tough. No nails. All screws. Hardwood with bung hole plugs. Others; not so lucky. Naybour: MBA finance; divorce w/ nice kid; catholic; well known and liked; big dude - really big truck; 200 showed up to his memorial get together incl chief of police and mayor.

But just drivin' that it ain't all controllable, to keep an open mind when it comes to education on this issue - Freudian bop-heads not.

Rustic Charm · 25-03-2016, 15:56

Real addictions have little to do with will power, everything to do with desperation after hitting rock bottom. When an addicted person becomes desperate enough that's when they will reach out for help. Few if any one at all, can conclude an addiction by will power alone. It's most likely not an addiction if they can.

**boatman61** · 25-03-2016, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Monkey's arnt Apes

Just saying

Hey.. whadda eye no.. eye'm ineductid..

unclemack · 25-03-2016, 16:27

Had a big argument with a (first year I hope) psychology student many years back who confidently proclaimed that genes were unimportant, only environmental factors influenced outcomes. That was what she'd recently been taught so to her it was beyond question.
Reading Laing's "The Divided Self" at school was my only acquaintance with the subject but logic is logic.
Remember hoping she was just a dummy who'd misunderstood a lecture because the alternative would have been worse.

Read a book in the early 90's which was a collection of papers written by psychologists working in the UK prison service. Might have been an early edition of "Psychology in Prisons."
Decided at the time nothing in it was worth a damn. Theories citing only other unsupported theories IIRC.

Way dumber now than I was then (which is the reason I gave up booze

) but remember dismissing most of it at the time.

Remember it mostly for one contributor's "Nothing Works" theory (my title, I forget the actual).
Just what it sounds like - a survey of a whole raft of other theories relating to criminal/prison psychology concluding that there was no evidence to support any of them.

I just found it entertaining to picture the wild party they all must have had.

IMO psychiatry & psychology show every bit as much dedication to scientific rigour as do homeopathy and scientology.

Progress in the study of brain structure & function might eventually offer some insight.