Ever seen a UFO?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Cadence

If they exist, why would they want anything to do with an uncivilized culture like us?

They obviously don't.. but then when one looks at Zuckerberg one has to wonder..

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Rick Williams

there's the old argument about believing in something even though you can't see it: air, a billion dollars, gravity (a politician with integrity) but it's just fear and vanity that won't let us believe in alien civilizations as if we're the only planet in the universe (billions of solar systems in our galaxy, billions of galaxies that we can see so far) capable of supporting life that can evolve to travel to other planets. I mean, it won't be long before we're heading to mars. Alien civilizations much smarter than us are not a stretch.

This is not about questioning whether there are other civilizations out there. Statistically speaking, it's ludicrous to bet against the idea. The issue is whether these more advanced peoples are sending craft here to buzz by without stopping in.

All we know is what we know. And what we know tells us it is incredibly difficult to traverse interstellar space. Going to Mars is a cakewalk in comparison. Given what we think we know about the laws of physics, it's unlikely we'll ever travel further than even the nearest star to Sol.

Originally Posted by Rick Williams

I've seen a lot of strange stuff but a few that are very obviously machines doing things we can't dream of which I assume are alien.

And there it is right there... you "assume." This is exactly what I was talking about; how our brains leap to conclusions because we can't live in the mystery. How about looking for more likely possibilities first instead of reaching for the fantastical? There's lots of stuff we don't know about. No reason to assume anything. Investigate.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by P3sailor

I've seen one, have never seen anything accelerate and change direction like that, basically instantaneous.

Yep, I and dozens of people in my neighborhood, saw one once. The red, non blinking light was to the north, moved slowly, then increased speed at an unreal rate, do unbelievable changes in directions, then stop. It did this going up or down, and parallel to the ground for a good 15 minutes or so before going UP at a very fast rate of speed and disappearing. Not a sound either.

Many people where outside, the kids playing and parents socializing. Remember when people used to do those things. Someone first saw the light and we all stopped what we were doing and watched it.

It just happened to be doing this at the eastern runway of Barksdale AFB, which then, and now, has B52 strategic bombers. With strategic bombers around there are strategic weapons.

I saw weather balloons launched from Barksdale. B52s would fly over and near the house. We could see and HEAR air shows, as well as planes taking off or landing from the house. A B52 flying over the house could be FELT. The house would rattle and shake. What we saw made no sound. None. Zip. Nada.

What we saw was not a weather balloon nor was it a conventional aircraft. I don't know what aircraft could have moved like what we saw.

Interestingly, many decades later, I was standing around with a group of men who where talking about this and that. I was just listening. One of the guys, who I highly respect, was a crew chief on B52s at Barksdale, which I had not known. He too had seen something like what we saw. Same description. I don't remember if I asked him what year he saw this...

"Scientists", until very recently, poo pooed sailors reporting huge waves at seas. Even when photographs existed...

Later,
Dan

[Hudson Force]

I would tend to be suspicious of those who claim that they have identified all that they have seen in the atmosphere. I don't have that ability; therefore, I have seen unidentified flying objects. This doesn't stir my imagination.

[peter57]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

Being a scientist firmly attached to the principle of parsimony, I fail to understand why people perceive something for which they have no explanation, an unidentified flying object, and immediately attribute it to an advanced alien civilization capable of violating known laws of physics. That's more than a stretch. It's invention of an entire different world to explain somethng that went bump in the night.

Moving at a million miles per hour is not breaking the laws of Physics.

Filmed IFO's doing close to these speeds, changing direction, splitting into two or three, and then into the shape of a triangle and then back into one, seeming like incredible feats

With none of these statements break the laws of physics. ????

[Hydro]

Originally Posted by dannc

Yep, I and dozens of people in my neighborhood, saw one once. The red, non blinking light was to the north, moved slowly, then increased speed at an unreal rate, do unbelievable changes in directions, then stop. It did this going up or down, and parallel to the ground for a good 15 minutes or so before going UP at a very fast rate of speed and disappearing. Not a sound either.

Many people where outside, the kids playing and parents socializing. Remember when people used to do those things. Someone first saw the light and we all stopped what we were doing and watched it.

It just happened to be doing this at the eastern runway of Barksdale AFB, which then, and now, has B52 strategic bombers. With strategic bombers around there are strategic weapons.

I saw weather balloons launched from Barksdale. B52s would fly over and near the house. We could see and HEAR air shows, as well as planes taking off or landing from the house. A B52 flying over the house could be FELT. The house would rattle and shake. What we saw made no sound. None. Zip. Nada.

What we saw was not a weather balloon nor was it a conventional aircraft. I don't know what aircraft could have moved like what we saw.

Interestingly, many decades later, I was standing around with a group of men who where talking about this and that. I was just listening. One of the guys, who I highly respect, was a crew chief on B52s at Barksdale, which I had not known. He too had seen something like what we saw. Same description. I don't remember if I asked him what year he saw this...

"Scientists", until very recently, poo pooed sailors reporting huge waves at seas. Even when photographs existed...

Later,
Dan

Hmmm, may have an answer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn1ZcbfOCVA

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Hydro

Hmmm, may have an answer...

Well, except, the Aurora is not seen that far south. Barksdale is in northern Louisiana. And what we saw was a simple light moving in ways that known aircraft cannot. The light was not something that brightens the entire sky.

Later,
Dan

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Or.. culturally influenced lack of imagination refuses to consider possible.. and they don't have to be outside this galaxy..
We know even less about what's out there than what's in our oceans..

My supposed 'lack of imagination' isn't the problem.

The substitution of critical thinking skills with 'belief', combined with the 'certainty' that 'others' shortcomings somehow negate actual evidence, is.

Among other things...

If you have any evidence supporting non-human-piloted, non-Earth originating 'flying objects', please provide it now.

'Evidence' that some 'imaginations' are somehow more limited than others, and by extension, one's own, is not evidence at all. It is fantasy.

Our ignorance of what is 'in' the Earth's oceans is far greater than what is 'in' our local solar system. because we have an exponentially larger body of knowledge of what it does contain than what the local yet extra-terrestrial 'objects' do. (False) paradoxes anyone?

What we do know is what these 'extra-terrestrial objects' don't contain; macro-scopic Earthlike-life-analogous organisms flitting around in 1950-style space ships, or their 21st century substitutes. Tic-tacs indeed...

Originally Posted by Rick Williams

there's the old argument about believing in something even though you can't see it: air, a billion dollars, gravity (a politician with integrity) but it's just fear and vanity that won't let us believe in alien civilizations as if we're the only planet in the universe (billions of solar systems in our galaxy, billions of galaxies that we can see so far) capable of supporting life that can evolve to travel to other planets. I mean, it won't be long before we're heading to mars. Alien civilizations much smarter than us are not a stretch.
We first flew a powered airplane 118 years ago and now landing on the moon is hard but completely doable. How is it difficult to believe that in another 100 years we'll have colonies on other planets and have drones hot dogging around the galaxy looking for distant civilizations?
I've seen a lot of strange stuff but a few that are very obviously machines doing things we can't dream of which I assume are alien. And that's just the night sky. Imagine what goes on during the day that you can't see?

Of course the same thing that tells me that no one here's seen a UFO from 'another planet' tells me that 'almost' (.99999999999999>) certainly there are, and have been, life-forms at least as capable as humans, and very likely more.

And that is a careful consideration of the relatively few physical facts that we're aware of and that permeate all observable space, most importantly for this topic; the 'universiality' of the elements listed in the periodic table and their interactions with each other, and the limitations imposed by both time and space (distance).

And there is no doubt that these life forms have evolved, in ways that were sometimes advantageous and sometimes disadvantageous for them. Leading to either their extinction or transformation into other forms.

Given the size and age of the Milky Way alone, there is little uncertainty that 'primitive' life forms have formed millions of times, and 'advanced' forms comparable in 'intelligence' to humans at least thousands. Multiply those numbers by at least a hundred billion, and there can really be no credible argument that 'intelligent alien' life forms don't exist.

Why is there no evidence for their visits (Graham Hancock, Velikovsky and the Egyptian pyramids notwithstanding)? Simple, the physical restrictions of distance. The real struggle of the imagination are the sheer sizes involved.

Here's a visualization I try sometimes; the scale and measurements are approximate but close enough to illustrate the distances involved.

If the Sun was the size of a saucer, the Earth would be a 1 1/2 mm grain of sand 45 feet away. And the nearest star would be 25000 miles away.

In actuality the Sun is roughly 93 million miles away; the 5 second walk from a saucer sized sun to Earth would take 4,754 years in reality. The walk to the nearest star? One billion, three hundred million years. Plus or minus...

For better or worse, the distances involved will forever prohibit interstellar visitation and even communication, if the definition of 'communication' is a meaningful and useful exchange of contemporary ideas.

Regardless of whatever pseudo-scientific dreams, hopes or desires have been 'sold' to the 'wanting to believe' public...

[Cajunexpat]

Modern humans have been around for 6000 years? give or take a thousand, in a universe that is 4,500,000,000 years old give or take a billion. Anyone who claims they have “scientific knowledge” that any phenomena they can’t understand is “against the laws of physics” is a damned fool, and not worth listening to. There are many many things out there, we will never as a species survive to understand, and we were never meant to.
I have seen things I can’t explain, I wasn’t stoned or on an lsd trip. Over educated people with no common sense are a common problem in our modern world. There are things greater and more advanced than us in existence. Anyone who says differently must have voted for Biden!

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Don C L

So I was reflecting on the recent 60 Minutes show that had a segment about UFOs and one that is purported to have appeared near here off the coast of San Diego, causing the sea to become turbulent and then submerging as well. Count me as a skeptic, but, I am curious if anyone else has seen bus-sized "tic-tac" shaped things jetting around and diving into the sea? Or any other oddities that defy description?

Well .......there was this one time ashore in Amsterdam.......?

[billgewater]

When the bottom falls off a ship as shown in the picture, then the molecular attraction between the iron and the water vanishes. So the rest of the ship just floats off in the air. This procedure can now be used to reduce the cost of international shipping but big business won't have it as it would affect their "bottom line". If you try the same thing (i.e. let your bottom fall off), chances are you may wing your way to heaven as well.
I mean, the ancients were convinced that above the clouds there were angels and harps and pearly gates, so why not a few footballs or bright lights? Plus my spouse complains about missing saucers from the galley. She thinks I use them in the workshop, but heh! We all know they just go off flying around the skies for some fun.
I think we all need a good escape from covid. People are becoming illogical.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cajunexpat

Modern humans have been around for 6000 years? give or take a thousand, in a universe that is 4,500,000,000 years old give or take a billion. Anyone who claims they have “scientific knowledge” that any phenomena they can’t understand is “against the laws of physics” is a damned fool, and not worth listening to. There are many many things out there, we will never as a species survive to understand, and we were never meant to.
I have seen things I can’t explain, I wasn’t stoned or on an lsd trip. Over educated people with no common sense are a common problem in our modern world. There are things greater and more advanced than us in existence. Anyone who says differently must have voted for Biden!

I don't know where you're getting your numbers. Certainly not out of a science textbook.

Modern humans emerged in the evolutionary record anywhere from 100,000 to 300,000 years ago. I have no idea where you got 6,000 years. Heck, the agricultural revolution, which saw Homo sapiens move from hunter-gatherers to farmers, and which essentially kick-started our global civilization, happened over 10,000 years ago.

As for your age of the Universe, again, waay off. Try closer to 13 billion years. That's 13,000,000,000. I think you're quoting the age of the Earth, or solar system, which is around 4.5 billion years.

People who think they know more than experts are the real problem in our society.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

So...that’s my buddy. We went through flight school and then F/A-18 training together back in 2011-2012.

Great American. I broke his balls after these interviews came out

Anyway, I worked at the parent command to his squadron when these things were happening, in Safety/Operations. We got to see their classified tapes, in full, to include JHMCS and radar/SA tapes—not just the FLIR footage released. Multiple aircrew from CVW-1 and other saw these things. We received many reports, backed by sensor data, and eventually put out a HAZREP (hazard report), I believe. Our primary concern was collision.

In short, these objects are 100% real. Do I think they’re alien spacecraft? Ehhhhhh. I’m an Occam’s razor kinda guy. I think it’s far more likely that they’re from this planet—but anything is possible.

CDR Fravor’s account is certainly more...intense. And more in line with something well, well beyond our known capes. That said, he was a well-respected aviator, so I don’t doubt what he saw one bit.

Apparently, when he came into the ready room after the flight, his entire squadron was wearing tin foil hats. Amazing

Thanks for that info.

It still freaks me out a bit hearing these guys on the radio because I can tell how young they are but I was military at 19 so how soon we forget.

Even now when the young male and female NFO's and pilot students come through my buildings I have to remind myself that they were the older folks we E1's -E4's depended on to give us the correct orders............back in the day.

Plus I had to depend on the pilots to fly correctly since my unit was usually located within 100 yards of the runway or like in Yuma, AZ between two runways with all our radars, Navaids, and Comms. (and tower at some sites)

Btw, it was in Yuma that I first saw an F14 and two of them came by with wings in and made hard turns to circle the runway. Those jets were not light weights so when they came thru at speed you knew about it especaily when compared to something like an F104

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNsxtNUeFB4

[jmschmidt]

Normally I'd say "No" but I did see something strange in the sky one clear summer night when a buddy and I were sleeping out in the yard in sleeping bags.
However, fast-forward 65+ years and I have to say that I have never seen any object in the sky, on the ground or in the water that couldn't be explained as a natural, even familiar occurrence during my 15,000hrs. of flying time, mostly in large, multi-engine turbine powered aircraft, day and night over continents and oceans. And, I have known and worked with hundreds of other pilots, many with twice my flying time, have I ever met or heard one who claimed to have seen a UFO.
I've seen the gun camera footage and other "evidence" all of which is easy to fake with todays technology. Is there life in the Universe more advanced than us? It's almost mathematically impossible for there not to be. Have they visited Earth? Maybe. Are they here now? Probably not. But if they are I don't think they would be out flying around teasing fighter pilots to trying to lock on to them and take pictures.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Cajunexpat

Modern humans have been around for 6000 years? give or take a thousand, in a universe that is 4,500,000,000 years old give or take a billion. Anyone who claims they have “scientific knowledge” that any phenomena they can’t understand is “against the laws of physics” is a damned fool, and not worth listening to. There are many many things out there, we will never as a species survive to understand, and we were never meant to.
I have seen things I can’t explain, I wasn’t stoned or on an lsd trip. Over educated people with no common sense are a common problem in our modern world. There are things greater and more advanced than us in existence. Anyone who says differently must have voted for Biden!

Ah yes...

Generally accepted age of 'modern humans'. At least 200,000 years.

Generally accepted age of the 'universe', 13,700,000,000 years. (as we know it [I for one think 'it's' eternal; always been here, always will be {certainly makes the most logical sense, based soley on personal observations}])

Would like to see some of examples of these "phenomena 'they' can’t understand", because generally what winds up being the truth is that understanding doesn't match the 'glamour' of not understanding.

For instance, what hope does an invisible virus have against 'Divine Retribution against disobedient boys and girls' in the Marketing Deptartment of Heaven? (or Hell for that matter) Leaving aside, of course, the jealous/omnipotent incongruent dichotomy of one's chosen 'diety'...

I've seen many things I couldn't initially explain. But very few that haven't been ultimately explained to me.

'UFO's' don't even begin to scratch the surface of the truly inexplicable; they are distraction fodder for those consumed by the pursuit of an easy, unexamined life.

The persistance of tropes like "Over educated people with no common sense are a common problem in our modern world" or "There are things greater and more advanced than us in existence" or "Anyone who says differently must have voted for Biden" are both an example of the accuracy of my last statement, and of their status as the greater problem in the 'modern world'.

Certainly greater that common-senseless over-education...