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oldragbaggers · 01-04-2014, 09:21

All but 2 of the sailboats we have purchased over the years have been projects. Most have been an average 2 years in duration. There have been 2, regrettably, that we eventually gave up on. It was very difficult to let go. That's not what we normally do and goes contrary to our nature, but sometimes you have to know when to say when. In the case of the first one we had invested several years and way too much money when we discovered structural problems that were just over our head. This was definitely one of those cases where they should have paid us, a lot, to take the boat, and is a prime example of what previous posters have pointed out, the boats with the cheapest initial purchase price can sometimes be the most expensive boats you'll ever buy.

The first was a 38' Cabo Rico that we got from the Boy Scouts for $10K. It was hull #1. It started life as a Tiburon 36 hull and deck kit. But the couple who was building it wanted a different cockpit configuration so they asked William Crealock to design a 2' bustle on the back of it and the CR 38 was born. The couple, Ben and Helen Harrison, then young 20-somethings, rented a shack in the backwoods in Costa Rica, had the hull and deck delivered there and set about finishing her out for their world cruising adventures. (Ben and Helen are well known figures in Key West as I understand it and Ben has just written a book about their adventure with the boat which is called Sailing Down the Mountain, and is soon to be released.) I think this was in 1976 or 1977. They did a magnificent job. We had an opportunity to speak with them after we bought the boat and as it turns out they cruised her for many years, had two children aboard I think, and had the adventure of a lifetime.) Hints of that magnificence remained when we bought her in 2001. But her cockpit, which they had built from plywood, was completely rotted and gone. The teak decks had been removed by a previous owner and the decks glassed over, the leaking through the rotted cockpit had also destroyed the galley, the engine did not run, there was no sails. But somehow in our mind it was a Cabo Rico and for $10K could not possibly be a bad deal. (We had done 2 previous rebuilds which had gone WAY OVER budget, so why we had not already learned our lesson I do not know.)

Anyway, we toiled away on her for a couple of years and put in about $40K more. But the Harrison's, in the quest for their ideal interior layout, had made one fatal flaw. Against Bill Crealock's advice they had stepped the mast on the deck instead of the keel. (Mind you I am not in any way speaking badly of the work done by them. For 2 young kids, what they did was amazing....but they were not architects.) What we discovered, 2 years into the rebuild, was that the supporting beam in the roof had a huge crack in it. The crack had been concealed behind a bolted on stainless steel plate. We called in a naval architect for advice. He told us that the only way he felt the boat would ever be structurally sound was if we tore out the interior and reconfigured it so that the mast could be stepped on the keel, as it should have been in the beginning. (With the layout it had, the mast would have come down right in the middle of the doorway to the forward part of the boat.) At that point we finally conceded that we were in way over our head and let her go. We managed to sell her for a paltry sum, losing over 2 years of hard, almost full time, work and most of our financial investment. To this day, as painful as it was, I am convinced we made the right decision.

The second boat was a 22' Cape Dory that was a hurricane Katrina victim. We bought it on eBay and had it shipped from Louisiana to MD. Actually we were doing fine with that restoration but decided to pass it on to someone else when a 28' Cape Dory came along at a fantastic deal. It was just a matter of priorities on that one. But still, it didn't feel right to stop short of completion.

We have done a couple more restorations since those but we are much more discerning about the ones we choose now and we have a much better sense of what a boat really needs and can make a more realistic assessment of what the costs are likely to be. Of course it's still always more than we think, but we're coming much closer these days.

Sometimes walking away really is the best option. You have to know when to cut your losses if you can't see your way clear to finishing what you started, or if you know that the finish you are able to achieve isn't one you'll ever be happy with. Take those lessons you learned, determine what it is you really need, what you're willing and can afford to do and make a better choice next time.

Or......do as others suggested, figure out what's essential to get her sailing and go have some fun. The rest can come in time. Sometimes a day out on the water can recharge your batteries just enough to get you through the next couple of projects.

w1651 · 01-04-2014, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horror Hotel

That's robbery, I would high tail it outta there and go elsewhere. Even if you have to drive 3 hours to get there you could save a ton of money. Did you look into other yards before hauling? Glades or green cove are the cheap DIY yards that cruisers flock to in Florida. But there are others, a common mistake is using what's close. Check green coves rates online, it will shock you. For that money you should get at least a month.

I agree but they are the only game in town. And if I do go over the bridge to Bradenton it's not enough of a savings to condone the extra gas. Don't forget the boat yard has to pay expenses too. And right now the state as well as local municipalities are squeezing everyone. If you want it to change start down town or run for office yourself I guess.

Horror Hotel · 02-04-2014, 06:30

Being the only game in town is a terrible excuse. It's not uncommon to travel to get to a good DIY yard, it's actually what's required if you have a big project. Sure people pay the big bucks to be on the hard at their local marina. But I'm sure some of these folks get nothing done because if the high rent. If your poor it makes sense to find a cheap DIY yard.

thomm225 · 02-04-2014, 06:54

Are you guys trying to totally restore your Good Ole Boats before sailing them? If so, why?

I bought an old 1974 Bristol 27 that had been on the hard for 5 years. I painted the bottom, played around with a couple diesels, and then ended up with an outboard, then went sailing. I was sailing it within three months of buying it. That was in 2011.

I still haven't done anything else except buy a new mainsail and a solar panel, inverter, and controller so I would have AC power for charging my laptop etc.

I'm thinking about doing more work soon. The boat was $2,000 which should give you some idea of it's condition.

Also, James Balwin at Atom Voyages recommends NOT doing a full restore before you sail your new old boat some. (its like the last paragraph before the list of boats in the link below)

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

On autopilot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy8UAU-Qw0Q

oldragbaggers · 02-04-2014, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225

Also, James Balwin at Atom Voyages recommends NOT doing a full restore before you sail your new old boat some. (its like the last paragraph before the list of boats in the link below)

That's fine for some good old boats, but you have to make sure that anything that could possible be a failure for you out there is taken care of before you set out. My husband and I have always been in the "we'll sail it when it's completely done" camp in the past. We are taking a bit of a different approach to the boat we have now and will likely start sailing it as soon as the hull and rig are good to go.

We're always amazed when people buy a beat up old boat that they know nothing about, pile a half dozen people on it the next day and head out sailing. That would scare the ever lovin' crap out of me. We're probably overly cautious and I know that 99 times out of a hundred they do just fine, nothing bad happens and hopefully somewhere along the way they get about the business of fixing the boat up a bit. But on the other hand, we have towed one back in and stopped to help others out when they got out there and found out the hard way that they should have maybe given the boat a little bit more attention before heading out for that first sail.

Maybe the OP is dealing with issues that make the boat un-sailable. But I would just deal with those things and then go have a good time. Mine will be sailing long before the interior cushions are made or the brightwork is bright again. Life is short and we aren't getting any younger.

w1651 · 02-04-2014, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225

Are you guys trying to totally restore your Good Ole Boats before sailing them? If so, why?

I bought an old 1974 Bristol 27 that had been on the hard for 5 years. I painted the bottom, played around with a couple diesels, and then ended up with an outboard, then went sailing. I was sailing it within three months of buying it. That was in 2011.

I still haven't done anything else except buy a new mainsail and a solar panel, inverter, and controller so I would have AC power for charging my laptop etc.

I'm thinking about doing more work soon. The boat was $2,000 which should give you some idea of it's condition.

Also, James Balwin at Atom Voyages recommends NOT doing a full restore before you sail your new old boat some. (its like the last paragraph before the list of boats in the link below)

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

On autopilot:

003 - YouTube

I understand what your saying but I bought my boat for cheap and the old man that had it before me couldn't/wouldn't maintain it. Here is my thread on this site I just updated it yesterday # 126. It has what I was worried about without getting into detail. Let's just say I am glad I made it to where I have it now.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...a-55556-9.html

w1651 · 02-04-2014, 08:31

I have also talked with James Baldwin via email. He is a great guy and a wealth of knowledge. If you need to get something set up for ocean voyages he is the man to do the work.

thomm225 · 02-04-2014, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

We're always amazed when people buy a beat up old boat that they know nothing about, pile a half dozen people on it the next day and head out sailing. That would scare the ever lovin' crap out of me.

Yep, I wouldn't risk taking anyone else out. Plus the first few nights I was up every hour or so checking for leaks while I was anchored.

Then after I felt comfortable the boat was pretty strong I started pushing it a bit. But you can see I do have my liferaft (16' Kayak) onboard.

003 - YouTube

At about the same time I started noticing new parts here and there on my Old boat. Then I remembered that it's last sail was a 2 year trip from Massachusetts to Florida and almost back. I'm thinking the Previous Owner went over it pretty thoroughly before his trip.

thomm225 · 02-04-2014, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by w1651

I have also talked with James Baldwin via email. He is a great guy and a wealth of knowledge. If you need to get something set up for ocean voyages he is the man to do the work.

But that would cost. I only paid $2,000 for the boat. I'd hate to pay someone for a small job, and it cost more than the boat did.

Plus the hull and rig seem to be pretty strong. I sail at the mouth of the Chesapeake where the bay meets the Atlantic so it's been tested pretty well these last few years.

When I brought it down here in 2012, there was a small craft advisory in effect. When I crossed the gap there where bay meets ocean I wasn't used to the boats motion in that confused sea so the autopilot and Mr Bristol brought us across while I tried to blow chunks from time to time. It was mostly dry heaves though.................very few good chunks.

All's well that ends well though and I was able to have a beer when I hit the creek!

appick · 02-04-2014, 11:42

I too have been there. When I was 18 I bought my first sailboat a solcat 18. It needed plenty of work but was cheap enough. I learned to fiberglass and fixed it up. Then I found a Oday 22 which was a blast to sail around and spend the weekend on. At 20yo I found a friends uncle had a Formosa 34 center cockpit. I got the boat for a mere $3000! Then I had it trucked home $2500. Then the yard wouldn't use my practically new jackstands so another 500 every 6 months to rent the cradle, plus storage... So by the time at 20yo making $12/hr working full time and going to college and working on a boat, things were starting to get tight!

Then a year plus in I finally get it stripped down inside and have done glass work to the cabin top, recaulked 80% of the seams on the teak deck ect. Then I start to notice hairline cracks all over the gelcoat, then I notice they are growing... Turns out the bulkheads were rotting where they sat in the bilge. The whole floor was timber and rotting as well. The structure of the deck was collapsing, along with the poor resin used to build the boat to begin with. It was showing cracks all the way through the glass in several areas. The boat was built in 1979-1980 at the height of crappy resin use in Tiawan. I was heartbroken and had wasted over $9-10k when I hardly made $28k a year. I finally handed over the title (after I stripped almost everything) to the yard and watched her continue to rot every time I drove by.

Sometimes you just have to know when to fold em. That being said I bought a fixer upper with my wife a few years ago that was much older and we put work in painting and glassing ect and now have a great little cruiser! So ya win some and ya loose some. I now have the foresight to know what boats are worth taking on and which are best left to their slow decay.

Daniel_Mar · 06-05-2014, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake001

Since this is the confessional section I thought it would be fitting to confess that I'm giving up on my project boat.

Probably like most I overestimated the time I have available to fix, replace, and upgrade the boat.

It's bitter sweet as I sit here in her cabin typing this post. Hopefully someone with time and energy will buy her at the bargain price and finish what I started.

I had to realize in the end what I wanted was to go sailing and having this boat bobbing in the slip week after week didn't work anymore.

Done.

Really sad to hear that jake. Perhaps you may reconsider

Cheechako · 06-05-2014, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake001

Since this is the confessional section I thought it would be fitting to confess that I'm giving up on my project boat.

Probably like most I overestimated the time I have available to fix, replace, and upgrade the boat.

It's bitter sweet as I sit here in her cabin typing this post. Hopefully someone with time and energy will buy her at the bargain price and finish what I started.

I had to realize in the end what I wanted was to go sailing and having this boat bobbing in the slip week after week didn't work anymore.

Done.

I've been very close before to giving up myself. I feel your pain. It is so easy to underestimate this stuff. Even after you've made the mistake before! Cheap boats are not cheap. If you add up the numbers, even free boats aren't usually cheap.
Good luck.

Jake001 · 06-05-2014, 19:24

Thanks to everyone that posted encouraging words to my original post. I thought that everyone might want an update on what happened after I posted.

I did find a great guy to buy my project boat and take over from where I was at. He got a great deal and I gave him quite a bit of my time to jump start his work on her.

My wife and I purchased a newer boat that had the features that we both wanted. We have been sailing the heck out her and taking plenty of our friends and family out for relaxing sails. Teaching the nieces and nephews the art of sailing and exposing friends to boating for the first time is very rewarding.

In the end, I'd like the person reading my post and thinking to themselves that they don't know if they should continue, it's ok to move on. Take your own direction and don't look back. We did it!

David and Cindy
S/V Summer Girl