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ssullivan · 08-03-2006, 18:21

I like the Coast Guard, but WOW.... this video shows the skipper of the Coast Guard vessel breaking some major nav rules.

http://www.m90.org/index.php?id=11568

CaptainK · 08-03-2006, 18:32

Ouch!!

That gotta hurt?

I don't know if the USCG captain broke any rules.

But that guy in the boat they hit, looks to me he's at fault?

08-03-2006, 18:33

Now that's embarrassing! I wold have liked to see the folow up on that one. I can not imagine the Coasties having any defense for those actions. Or maybe they are falling in line with land bound law enforcement. At least here in California, if you are involved in an accident with an emergency vehicle while it is displaying lights, you are automatically at fault. Even if you are stopped.
I sure wouldn't want one of those Coast Guard boat running into me.

08-03-2006, 18:36

K, Vessel to starboard has the right of way (with exceptions). A vessel is required to take evasive action to avoid a collision, which the Coasties had ample opportunity, but didn't. THe skipper was yelling not using sound signals, no mention of an attempt to use the VHF, shall I go on?

CaptainK · 08-03-2006, 18:41

DUH?

I didn't know Kai. Remember. I'm still new at this stuff!!

ssullivan · 08-03-2006, 18:48

Quote:

CaptainK once whispered in the wind:
Ouch!!

That gotta hurt?

I don't know if the USCG captain broke any rules.

But that guy in the boat they hit, looks to me he's at fault?

Yes, the USCG captain broke MANY rules - all within the steering and sailing rules. Here they are:

First and formost: Rule 15 -

When two power-driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel.

Rule 6: Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed.... ... to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevaling circumstances and conditions.

Rule 8 (this is the biggie!):

(a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall be taken in accordance with the Rules of this Part and [Intl] shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship.

(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.

(c) If there is sufficient sea room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result in another close-quarters situation.

(d) Action taken to avoid collision with another vessel shall be such as to result in passing at a safe distance. The effectiveness of the action shall be carefully checked until the other vessel is finally past and clear.

(e) If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to asses the situation, a vessel may slacken her speed or take all way off by stopping or reversing her means of propulsion.

(f)

1. A vessel which, by any of these rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel.
2. A vessel required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel is not relieved of this obligation if approaching the other vessel so as to involve risk of collision and shall, when taking action, have full regard to the action which may be required by the rules of this part.
3. A vessel, the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.

I just can't even fathom how the skipper of that Coast Guard vessel didn't follow safe and prudent seamanship practices AND their own rules in this crystal clear, lake boating day.

The Coast Guard skipper literally ran down that boat in broad daylight. As someone trained in this area (piloting vessels safely) it makes me sick to watch that. UGH.

08-03-2006, 18:53

Yea, what he said

I have a book for you K. There are a few basics you need before challenging the 30kt ferrys on the bay.

CaptainK · 08-03-2006, 19:03

Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead. CRASH!!!!!!!!!

CSY Man · 08-03-2006, 19:21

Yeah, I agree: The coasties must have been on the crack-pipe on this time.
It would only take them 3 degrees of Starboard helm to avoid this one...For 3 seconds.

On the other hand, the civilians in the little boat did not pay attention either..

It takes two to tango, but the Coasties sure screwed this one big time.

hammerfelt · 08-03-2006, 19:44

Well I am biased against speedsters, but I think there is some provision that recreational boats are always the burdened boat in any meeting with commercial traffic (and I asume law enforcement as well). The Coast guard vessel may have assumed they would have paid attention, and in fact they were pursuing the vessel in the far distance -- there is also a chopper present -- So either it was a rescue, a medical, or a drug bust -- and in any of those cases their standing on course would be excusable -- My guess is that the video is out of context, and we don't have the details. However, although I am usually against govt being above regular people, in cases of civil defence or search and rescue, they should be given priority and benefit of the doubt. And besides to miss such a big whopper of a coast guard boat heading towards you -- you'd have to figure those people were drunk and oblivious. I share a narrow channel with power boaters, and don't want to get into all of that, but I don't have much to say about general traits of speedsters when it comes to seaworthiness, consideration towards other boaters, knowlege of rules, or sobriety.

ssullivan · 08-03-2006, 19:55

Quote:

hammerfelt once whispered in the wind:
Well I am biased against speedsters, but I think there is some provision that recreational boats are always the burdened boat in any meeting with commercial traffic (and I asume law enforcement as well).

This is not true. Law Enforcement has no special standing in International or Inland steering and sailing rules.

This is a clear case of gross negligence on the part of the skipper, no matter how it arose.

Lodesman · 08-03-2006, 20:09

Both are clearly at fault. And no there is no provision in the rules that recreational vessels are burdened meeting commercial traffic. In any risk of collision, both vessels are burdened - one must give way and one must stand on (that is maintain course and speed). Context in the video is not clear - did coasties have flashing blue light, did they sound 5 short, did they hail on VHF and loudhailer...??? Love the excuse that he didn't even know the CG vessel was there (ahead of him) until after he was hit - good grief, if you're zipping along at 25 knots, you should look in the direction the boat is going.

Kevin

08-03-2006, 20:19

Contrary to popular belief, commercial vessels do not have any special right of way provisions by the letter of the law. The exception is to vessels constrained by their draft, or vessels whose steerage is impaired. This does not mean that a cargo ship can just pull into a channel and bowl over a sail boat, but it does mean that a small sailing vessel who would otherwise be on a collision course with a large ship must take prudent action to avoid collision, as the manueverability of the ship will be limited. The ship has a responsibility to make diligent effort to give way to the sailing vessel, however, only within the constraints of it's ability to safely manuever. This is an ongoing battle in the SF Bay. Large ships often overstep the allowances made for their limitations, and small vessels often demand right of way to the degree of causing danger to themselves. Sound signals are also a requirement. The Coast Guard vessel in this film clearly did not offer any sound signals, and took no action to avoid collision. Maritime law is very clear on this. In fact, this rule supercedes all other rules of the road. All vessels must take imediate and appropriate action to avoid collision. It can not be any clearer.