Somtimes it's Better not to Rescue a Boat

[Cap Erict3]

Originally Posted by redpointist

Interesting that many people in this thread seem to have implied BA is lacking in morality or a bum looking for a handout, for expecting a $200 reward for rescueing an unattended capsized boat 2 miles ofshore at night ( and removing a hazard to navigation) His expectations seem pretty conservative when compared to typical marine salvage customs. Salvage considerations aside, a tow company would expect at least as much even if the owner was present and the boat wasnt capsized.

I wonder how those people in this thread would have reacted if the salvager was a company owned boat rather than an individual whos admitted to being short on cash.

Good point.

The guy gets banged up recovering a boat adrift, tows boat into port where it is seized by armed thugs.

I'm guessing the dumpster diving comment was a reference to a shoestring operation? A comment from a fella who pays top dollar to any and all that labor in his service?

Sometimes the poor do good deeds for the wealthy hoping for a fair payment for their efforts.
Look down you noses on them if u must. It's cheaper that way. Hell, its how most get wealthy in the first place.

Cheap labor it's just good business. Free is even better.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by redpointist

I dont know how St. Lucias legal system functions and I dont want to find out. I think we could both agree that a legal pursuit of the issue probably wouldnt be successful for BA and is probably something he should avoid.

However i do wish to counter the opinion that BA is some sort of moral degenerate for expecting payment for his work and isnt off base for asking for compensation. But we all know that the legal resolution of situation rarely lines up with what we might consider the 'right' or moral resolution.

I don't know the OP from a bar of soap. Some of you clearly do and it sounds like he's been a great supporter of the open wear thingy a lot use.

All I'm commenting on, and I'd suggest others can comment on is this incident which the OP has reported on. If you remove any personal knowledge you have of him, and just go off this post, then I struggle to see how you can conclude anything other than he's acting unethically at least. Why? Because, firstly no matter how the OP words it, he has NO right to demand payment, which is what he clearly was doing. He also has NO right to claim the vessel or the rig without without either lodging a claim or the rightful owners signing the property over to him. He has no lawful right to withhold the rig in lieu of payment, which as someone rightly suggest is extortion. And then, to top it all off he does not even have in his possession the property to which he's demanding payment for

So, perhaps he's the nicest most generous sailor around. Who happens to have a lot of bad luck it would seem. But, you can't expect anyone to know that based on this thread which he reported the facts on.

[redpointist]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I don't know the OP from a bar of soap. Some of you clearly do and it sounds like he's been a great supporter of the open wear thingy a lot use.

All I'm commenting on, and I'd suggest others can comment on is this incident which the OP has reported on. If you remove any personal knowledge you have of him, and just go off this post, then I struggle to see how you can conclude anything other than he's acting unethically at least. Why? Because, firstly no matter how the OP words it, he has NO right to demand payment, which is what he clearly was doing. He also has NO right to claim the vessel or the rig without without either lodging a claim or the rightful owners signing the property over to him. He has no lawful right to withhold the rig in lieu of payment, which as someone rightly suggest is extortion. And then, to top it all off he does not even have in his possession the property to which he's demanding payment for

So, perhaps he's the nicest most generous sailor around. Who happens to have a lot of bad luck it would seem. But, you can't expect anyone to know that based on this thread which he reported the facts on.

He might be acting illegally, but I'd argue that its not always possible to act within the law when the police or legal system are corrupt. And if we go by the information presented in the thread, BA claims that the yaucht club agrees the boat belongs to him.

And it sounds like he does have in possesion a part of the boat, the rig, which he tried unsuccessfuly to sell back to them. Apparently the club doesnt have much problem with him keeping it because they dont seem to have alerted the police or filed a formal claim against him. I'd reccommend he sell the damn rig to someone on another island and stay the hell away from St. Lucia after such an experience.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I don't know the OP from a bar of soap. Some of you clearly do and it sounds like he's been a great supporter of the open wear thingy a lot use.

The OP contributes to the OpenCPN project as do a lot of other people. He has been on CF for a long time. His posts indicate that he cruises in a small boat with no engine as some are wont to do. It seems he is trying to see the world without spending much money.

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

All I'm commenting on, and I'd suggest others can comment on is this incident which the OP has reported on. If you remove any personal knowledge you have of him, and just go off this post, then I struggle to see how you can conclude anything other than he's acting unethically at least. Why? Because, firstly no matter how the OP words it, he has NO right to demand payment, which is what he clearly was doing. He also has NO right to claim the vessel or the rig without without either lodging a claim or the rightful owners signing the property over to him. He has no lawful right to withhold the rig in lieu of payment, which as someone rightly suggest is extortion. And then, to top it all off he does not even have in his possession the property to which he's demanding payment for :nonono

If a boat is found adrift and a salvor recovers it they have a claim. The amount depends on several factors. The owner cannot just say "gimme back my boat" and pay the salvor nothing. Hopefully the owner and salvor can agree on the terms. If not then there are legal avenues either side can pursue. This case clearly isn't worth a court battle.

What the OP is asking for is not unreasonable IMO. The owner doesn't want to pay nor does he want the boat back which is fine. The confiscation of the boat by law enforcement complicates matters but the salvor has a right to claim the property since the owner doesn't want to pay the reasonable salvage fee.

Just because you don't know the OP nor read any previous posts by him doesn't mean others cannot have an opinion. They should be able to draw on their prior experience to correct the notion that the OP is some kind of crazed anarchist. Several unkind and unwarranted things have been said and refuting them with a few facts seems like a good idea.

Here is a good test for posting on CF. Would you like your mom (or dad) to read the whole thread and see how you responded?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

I'm guessing the dumpster diving comment was a reference to a shoestring operation? A comment from a fella who pays top dollar to any and all that labor in his service?

Nope, it's a reference to previous postings where the OP describes how he feeds himself by picking food from dumpsters behind supermarkets.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by StuM

Nope, it's a reference to previous postings where the OP describes how he feeds himself by picking food from dumpsters behind supermarkets.

Thats awesome! What a great way to reduce waste and live in a low impact, low waste way. :thumbup::thumbup:

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by StuM

Nope, it's a reference to previous postings where the OP describes how he feeds himself by picking food from dumpsters behind supermarkets.

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Thats awesome! What a great way to reduce waste and live in a low impact, low waste way. :thumbup::thumbup:

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ah but in the world of Comrade Bernie, it does.
See only the poor are looked upon as virtuous.
The rich must have gotten that way by screwing the poor.
So we must take from the evil rich and give to the poor.

A local radio show host Howie Carr calls it "Bum Worship."

[YesIsail]

St Lucia was a nice place before . I have sailed all of it and have met wonderful people. But now things have changed. Piton is one of the most beautiful places in the caribbean, the problem there is the pushing people on boats demanding money for everything, also the high mooring fees. Its a shame but It it getting worse.

[boatman61]

I've had a dig at BA a couple of times in the past but you've got to give the man his due.. he's over 3/4's of the way round for a circumnavigation on half a shoestring and on a boat most would not take onto the ICW...
Its not what you've got.. its how you use it..

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I've had a dig at BA a couple of times in the past but you've got to give the man his due.. he's over 3/4's of the way round for a circumnavigation on half a shoestring and on a boat most would not take onto the ICW...
Its not what you've got.. its how you use it..

In England, we call some people eccentric (a person of unconventional and slightly strange views or behavior.)

I understand every persons point of view on here, and see that BA does not fit into the conventional mode of thinking. Yet here is a man striking out on his own with little or no cash and doing what he can to survive.......

A misjudgment of approach has led to an unfortunate situation, probably driven by a need for cash, and the resulting backlash is here to see.

As Boatie said... there has to be some appreciation for his journey even if there is not always agreement on methodology employed.

I guess Im here thinking that I would not do it his way, and yet he will be the one telling his grandkids about his life and travels and they will love to pieces their eccentric grandpa....

He is what he is and has a very generous nature in many ways. He doesnt think like the rest of us on certain issues hence his lifestyle. For all that, life is comprised of a variety of individuals of which he most certainly is one.

I wish I had a gramps like him...

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

The OP contributes to the OpenCPN project as do a lot of other people. He has been on CF for a long time. His posts indicate that he cruises in a small boat with no engine as some are wont to do. It seems he is trying to see the world without spending much money.

If a boat is found adrift and a salvor recovers it they have a claim. The amount depends on several factors. The owner cannot just say "gimme back my boat" and pay the salvor nothing. Hopefully the owner and salvor can agree on the terms. If not then there are legal avenues either side can pursue. This case clearly isn't worth a court battle.

What the OP is asking for is not unreasonable IMO. The owner doesn't want to pay nor does he want the boat back which is fine. The confiscation of the boat by law enforcement complicates matters but the salvor has a right to claim the property since the owner doesn't want to pay the reasonable salvage fee.

Just because you don't know the OP nor read any previous posts by him doesn't mean others cannot have an opinion. They should be able to draw on their prior experience to correct the notion that the OP is some kind of crazed anarchist. Several unkind and unwarranted things have been said and refuting them with a few facts seems like a good idea.

Here is a good test for posting on CF. Would you like your mom (or dad) to read the whole thread and see how you responded?

Hey pull your head in. I at no stage suggested others shouldn't have an opinion. nor was I in anyway over the top with the OP.

And if you want to be technical, NO, someone doesn't have a right to keep property in lieu of lodging a legal claim. So,

And there is nothing I've written in this post that I'd be embarrassed for my dead mother to read. Can you say the same?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I've had a dig at BA a couple of times in the past but you've got to give the man his due.. he's over 3/4's of the way round for a circumnavigation on half a shoestring and on a boat most would not take onto the ICW...
Its not what you've got.. its how you use it..

Now there's a story in that then

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Now there's a story in that then

You never know.. he could just be the new 'Mottessier'... from the bits I've picked up from his posts he's not averse to going native which brings its own rewards down in the barrio.. and lots of tales to tell.. but I'd suggest a Ghost Writer.. lol

[Blue Crab]

He's one of my favorite posters on here, and a genuine example of "go small, go now." In fact I much prefer the hard-scrabble sailors' stories on CF over the checkbook sailors' posts. In the massive $500 a month threads, there were many good posts by guys otherwise in the woodwork around here. I could name names and many would be nodding their heads.

I don't think BA was remotely unreasonable in his approach to the Yot Clubbe. Nor in his relating the story to us. On the same hand, the Clubbe was within its rights to not be interested. Enter the police: uh oh! BA took off; again, correctly so.

As I recall, the dumpster posts were also about all the valuable usable gear that the better-heeled folks toss away. I think we're all aware of this but many may not be comfortable admitting they've salvaged items. In the spirit of full disclosure, I can afford to buy a (small) truck load of Igloo coolers. Still, I recently saw a like-new beer cooler in a dumpster as I deposited some trash. It wasn't my favorite color but still had the price tag on it. Opening it, it still contained beer! Yes it did. It also had a rotting hunk of bait. I dumped the stinky beer and bait. Washed the cooler and continue to use it. Sue me.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

He's one of my favorite posters on here, and a genuine example of "go small, go now." In fact I much prefer the hard-scrabble sailors' stories on CF over the checkbook sailors' posts. In the massive $500 a month threads, there were many good posts by guys otherwise in the woodwork around here. I could name names and many would be nodding their heads.

I don't think BA was remotely unreasonable in his approach to the Yot Clubbe. Nor in his relating the story to us. On the same hand, the Clubbe was within its rights to not be interested. Enter the police: uh oh! BA took off; again, correctly so.

As I recall, the dumpster posts were also about all the valuable usable gear that the better-heeled folks toss away. I think we're all aware of this but many may not be comfortable admitting they've salvaged items. In the spirit of full disclosure, I can afford to buy a (small) truck load of Igloo coolers. Still, I recently saw a like-new beer cooler in a dumpster as I deposited some trash. It wasn't my favorite color but still had the price tag on it. Opening it, it still contained beer! Yes it did. It also had a rotting hunk of bait. I dumped the stinky beer and bait. Washed the cooler and continue to use it. Sue me.

you a bad ass alright